Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez Follies

December 13th, 2019 at 2:54:03 PM permalink
Gandler
Member since: Aug 15, 2019
Threads: 27
Posts: 4236
Quote: AZDuffman
I don't get why people like yourself want to pat more taxes. A VAT is awful because you do not realize how much the government is taking from you. Why on earth would any rational person WANT a VAT?

And what on earth is great about creating more revenue for the government? More revenue for the government just means you paid more in taxes. But what is laughable is the same people who want a VAT to give the government more revenue get bent out of shape when a corporation makes more profit. They say they "paid more because of 'greedy' company execs!"


Nobody cares about profits. It is great when anyone does well.

But, the government needs to earn revenue as well. VAT allows less ability for tax evasion because taxes are implemented at various stages of production not just on income or sales.
December 13th, 2019 at 4:02:33 PM permalink
AZDuffman
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 135
Posts: 18136
Quote: Gandler
Nobody cares about profits. It is great when anyone does well.

But, the government needs to earn revenue as well. VAT allows less ability for tax evasion because taxes are implemented at various stages of production not just on income or sales.


And that is why it is awful. Sheep don’t know how much tax they are paying. When it goes up they will blame “corporate greed” and demand corporations “pay their fair share.”

No thanks. You want to polish your chains feel free. I want to cut mine.
The President is a fink.
December 13th, 2019 at 4:25:27 PM permalink
Gandler
Member since: Aug 15, 2019
Threads: 27
Posts: 4236
Quote: AZDuffman
And that is why it is awful. Sheep don’t know how much tax they are paying. When it goes up they will blame “corporate greed” and demand corporations “pay their fair share.”

No thanks. You want to polish your chains feel free. I want to cut mine.


Yeah, there are a lot of sophisticated corporations that pay minimal taxes in the current system, so they should pay their fair share.
December 13th, 2019 at 6:41:28 PM permalink
kenarman
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 14
Posts: 4470
Quote: Gandler
Yeah, there are a lot of sophisticated corporations that pay minimal taxes in the current system, so they should pay their fair share.


There is only one taxpayer and that is the consumer. Any taxes that are paid by companies are an illusion unless the taxes are paid in a different jurisdiction from where they are earned.

A VAT just has this principle imbodied in the structure of the tax. Other than the paperwork cost of collecting and tracking the tax there is no net tax paid by a company. With todays computer accounting and billing programs this tracking is largely automated. Many on this forum don't seem to understand how a Value Added Tax actually works.
"but if you make yourselves sheep, the wolves will eat you." Benjamin Franklin
December 14th, 2019 at 5:49:29 AM permalink
AZDuffman
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 135
Posts: 18136
Quote: Gandler
Yeah, there are a lot of sophisticated corporations that pay minimal taxes in the current system, so they should pay their fair share.


Which they do. Large corporations will get audited every year. Corporate tax is far more complicated than personal tax from carry forward/carry back alone.

Then there is the fact that dividends unfairly get taxed twice. Talk about a total rip off.
The President is a fink.
December 15th, 2019 at 2:38:16 AM permalink
Shrek
Member since: Aug 13, 2019
Threads: 6
Posts: 1635
Quote: AZDuffman
Which they do. Large corporations will get audited every year. Corporate tax is far more complicated than personal tax from carry forward/carry back alone.

Then there is the fact that dividends unfairly get taxed twice. Talk about a total rip off.

I would actually support a VAT, but only IF we abolished all income taxes.
But since that will never happen, I will never support a VAT.
December 15th, 2019 at 7:09:35 AM permalink
AZDuffman
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 135
Posts: 18136
Quote: Shrek
I would actually support a VAT, but only IF we abolished all income taxes.
But since that will never happen, I will never support a VAT.


Same here but I would prefer a straight sales tax not baked into the price as a VAT hides what you pay for all that "free stuff."

Yes, would need to change the Constitution and ban income tax.
The President is a fink.
December 15th, 2019 at 8:09:37 AM permalink
kenarman
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 14
Posts: 4470
Quote: AZDuffman
Quote: Shrek
I would actually support a VAT, but only IF we abolished all income taxes.
But since that will never happen, I will never support a VAT.


Same here but I would prefer a straight sales tax not baked into the price as a VAT hides what you pay for all that "free stuff."

Yes, would need to change the Constitution and ban income tax.


Why do you think a VAT hides the tax AZD? It is right there staring you in the face on your invoice. The price on the invoice includes what ever VAT that company paid and any additional tax on the VALUE ADDED by them when they sold it to you (ie the increased price of the item or service after their mark-up).

The government only receives the amount of the VAT on the final invoice paid for by the end user. A portion of the tax is remitted to the government by each company in the supply chain. The total amount received by the government is the amount on the final consumers invoice.
"but if you make yourselves sheep, the wolves will eat you." Benjamin Franklin
December 15th, 2019 at 8:14:51 AM permalink
AZDuffman
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 135
Posts: 18136
Quote: kenarman
Quote: AZDuffman
Quote: Shrek
I would actually support a VAT, but only IF we abolished all income taxes.
But since that will never happen, I will never support a VAT.


Same here but I would prefer a straight sales tax not baked into the price as a VAT hides what you pay for all that "free stuff."

Yes, would need to change the Constitution and ban income tax.


Why do you think a VAT hides the tax AZD? It is right there staring you in the face on your invoice. The price on the invoice includes what ever VAT that company paid and any additional tax on the VALUE ADDED by them when they sold it to you (ie the increased price of the item or service after their mark-up).

The government only receives the amount of the VAT on the final invoice paid for by the end user. A portion of the tax is remitted to the government by each company in the supply chain. The total amount received by the government is the amount on the final consumers invoice.



At the consumer level you do not usually see or get an invoice. You just see a price on the shelf. Europeans complain about the surprise of sales tax in the USA because they just pay the posted price on the shelf.

NEWS FLASH--the consumer pays ALL OF THE VAT! Sheep say, "each level pays just a small share." Sheepdogs understand that the whole of the VAT is baked in to the final cost no matter how many "rebates" come along the line.

Keep taking them Blue Pills if you like. Red Pill life is hard, but at least you learn how to survive the system when you can.
The President is a fink.
December 15th, 2019 at 9:23:15 AM permalink
kenarman
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 14
Posts: 4470
Quote: AZDuffman
Quote: kenarman
Quote: AZDuffman
Quote: Shrek
I would actually support a VAT, but only IF we abolished all income taxes.
But since that will never happen, I will never support a VAT.


Same here but I would prefer a straight sales tax not baked into the price as a VAT hides what you pay for all that "free stuff."

Yes, would need to change the Constitution and ban income tax.


Why do you think a VAT hides the tax AZD? It is right there staring you in the face on your invoice. The price on the invoice includes what ever VAT that company paid and any additional tax on the VALUE ADDED by them when they sold it to you (ie the increased price of the item or service after their mark-up).

The government only receives the amount of the VAT on the final invoice paid for by the end user. A portion of the tax is remitted to the government by each company in the supply chain. The total amount received by the government is the amount on the final consumers invoice.



At the consumer level you do not usually see or get an invoice. You just see a price on the shelf. Europeans complain about the surprise of sales tax in the USA because they just pay the posted price on the shelf.

NEWS FLASH--the consumer pays ALL OF THE VAT! Sheep say, "each level pays just a small share." Sheepdogs understand that the whole of the VAT is baked in to the final cost no matter how many "rebates" come along the line.

Keep taking them Blue Pills if you like. Red Pill life is hard, but at least you learn how to survive the system when you can.


I am confused about what you are saying. In Canada with our VAT (GST) the tax amount is always shown on the invoice or till tape your receive. The cost ticket on the shelf is always pre tax, as are hotel rooms, building contracts and anything else. Sometimes company will have a NO TAX sale in which they don't add a tax to the sticker price. Of course with that sale they are hiding the tax and still backing it out of what they receive and remitting to the Government.

When our VAT was instituted it replaced a hidden federal government sales tax which was hidden to the consumer and paid by the manufacturers. The VAT is much more transparent.
"but if you make yourselves sheep, the wolves will eat you." Benjamin Franklin