Pot Legalized

Quote: Evenbob

You never hear a top CEO say he got where he is by smoking reefer every day.

True, nor do top CEOs say anything else that would upset their bankers and their shareholders and invite the attention of the authorities.

There is a tremendous individual variation in response to drugs, ALL drugs.

When gorillas have high levels of intestinal parasites, they take drugs.

Want to rate drugs by "cost to society" and alcohol will be at the top followed by artificial sweeteners followed by meth and then by sugar, particularly HFCS.

Pot and "cost to society" is absurd because those are costs we manufacture.

When we prohibited alcohol we got alot of rot gut whiskey in the supply line and medical and social costs were high but no one drank those rot gut ingredients but for the Volstead Act. In South East Asia alot of people drink diesel and we jeer at them. I don't know if they ever jeered at us when we did the exact same think during Prohibition as they do now.

A note to my qualifications:

I know some people thing I'm strange but I see nothing wrong with nibbling on the sex organs of a fungus. I often consume, particularly on a hot sunny afternoon, the same chemical that a skunk uses in its defense. I see nothing wrong with this and I assure you that it is NOT illegal for me to do so. I've previously listed the strange chemicals I consume from time to time and Im sure you all recall the word roots that I pointed out relating to spermidine, putrescine and cadaverine.

Quote: AZDuffman

That is the thing on its use for pain management. It does not really dull the pain, it puts the mind in a cloud so you do not notice or care as much. Like when you are sick with the flu and a home remedy is honey and booze. Honey helps the cough, booze lets you sleep so the body can do its job and get better.

I noticed this when I have tooth or kidney pain and am lucky enough that the doc writes me a scrip for Vicodin. The pain does go away, but the relief is the cloud you are in for a few hours to make you forget it. You finally relax after days or weeks of pain.

Where the problem comes in is when people decide if they feel that much better taking it when in pain, imagine how wild it will feel if you take it when you feel fine. This is why Hong Kong fell to the Brits, and at the rate the USA is going we will have some kind of big, negative consequence.

I'll refer you to Flea's post about drugs acting differently on different people.

Vicodin doesn't fog me whatsoever. In fact, it peps me up. It gives me a boost of energy like very weak cocaine or very strong caffeine. It doesn't remove my pain, but it does a very good job of taking away the edge.

Most drugs are in the business of fooling your body. Ibuprofen doesn't heal a torn ligament, it just reduces the swelling thereby lessening pain. Cold meds don't cure a viral infection, they just block histamines so your nose and eyes stop watering.

What is "blocking pain" anyway? Near as I can figure, you have pain receptors that send a signal to your brain that something is wrong. Opiates gum up those senders and receivers so that signal doesn't come in as strong. As a result, pain is "blocked". Weed in my experience doesn't really do that, but it sure does help with pain. Mostly it seems to do so in the way described; it sort of makes me not care that it hurts, it prevents me from noticing it. In one case we're blocking the actual sensation. In the other, we're ascribing a lower priority in the sensation received. Isn't that two paths to the same house?

Quote: Face

What is "blocking pain" anyway? Near as I can figure, you have pain receptors that send a signal to your brain that something is wrong. Opiates gum up those senders and receivers so that signal doesn't come in as strong. As a result, pain is "blocked". Weed in my experience doesn't really do that, but it sure does help with pain. Mostly it seems to do so in the way described; it sort of makes me not care that it hurts, it prevents me from noticing it. In one case we're blocking the actual sensation. In the other, we're ascribing a lower priority in the sensation received. Isn't that two paths to the same house?

"Blocking pain" as you say is different for different drugs with differing modes of action. Few drugs "heal" but rather as I think I mentioned make it so the body can heal itself. This seems like why weed is good for things like cataracts, to stop that pain you nearly have to knock someone out. I could see it doing the same for kidney stones, though I will still take an opiate script given the choice.

EB and I seem to be on the side that recreational use is an issue because too many people use it to forget about life to bad results.

Quote: AZDuffman

EB and I seem to be on the side that recreational use is an issue because too many people use it to forget about life to bad results.

Vicodin makes you feel like the pain is six
blocks away. I knew a guy who was terrified
of death, so he got addicted to Vic to dull
the pain. It eventually killed him, quite ironic
I always thought.

Quote: AZDuffman

I could see it doing the same for kidney stones, though I will still take an opiate script given the choice.

I agree, in that vikes are my favorite. OTC stuff is too weak. Oxy's make me nauseous. Vikes take enough off that I can get mobile and the only side effect, for me, is a little puff of energy.

The bad is my use is unlike yours. You have a procedure or an acute issue like stones, it's all good. But I've been on vikes for 12 years, and everything's only getting worse. Granted, I've only taken 2 x 5mg in the last 4 months or so when I separated my shoulder, but more or less constant use is likely going to be a permanent part of my life.

Getting addicted and OD'ing is a non issue for me. But burning my liver out is beyond plausible, I'd say it's probable. Having a wholly natural, cheap, and safe alternative sitting right there... it's bloody torturous.

Quote: AZD

EB and I seem to be on the side that recreational use is an issue because too many people use it to forget about life to bad results.

And I get this, 100%. But the reality doesn't jive. If prohibition actually worked, then maybe the fears would be valid. But it doesn't, so they don't.

Quote: AZDuffman

"Blocking pain" as you say is different for different drugs with differing modes of action. Few drugs "heal" but rather as I think I mentioned make it so the body can heal itself. This seems like why weed is good for things like cataracts, to stop that pain you nearly have to knock someone out. I could see it doing the same for kidney stones, though I will still take an opiate script given the choice.

EB and I seem to be on the side that recreational use is an issue because too many people use it to forget about life to bad results.

I agree with you on drugs not healing, I don't think drugs heal anything except maybe anti- biotics? The rest hopefully aid the body to heal itself. Of the newest "cures" I have read about for cancer, that is the approach for the newest greatest drugs in the pipeline, are drugs that increase the body's immune system so that it can fight the disease itself, some in phase 3 trials.

Kidney stones are really unpleasant, apparently this isn't news to you. I have had them, they are impressive. That was my thought while trying to pass one while I was talking to myself, I said petro "this is pretty impressive". I hope you never know first hand that there is pain out there, that morphine won't relieve.

Prior to my workplace getting all random drug test happy, I use to be able to get a product from Canada otc, I think it is called 222's. Down in Oz, I think it is paracemetol?That was really neat, 2mg of codeine, 2 of either acetomenophin, or aspirin and 2mg's of caffeine so the codeine didn't put you to sleep. Worked great for me when usa otc's didn't do the job. I would burn through a bottle per year. Like everything else, people abused it so it went behind the counter.

Same thing I knew would happen with the legal weed. Like you, I know it is an incredible waste of money and energy to put smokers in prison. The only people that seem to benefit from that is the "for profit" prison industry. I knew it wouldn't be long before people would abuse it. People are generally just no damn good. Not that many are willing to detour from the path of least resistance.

Millions of people will never amount to anything, I think more often from a lack of will than do to weed. It does help stop them from becoming violent though. Ask any cop if he would rather chase down a pot smoker or a crackhead. Its not associated with violence, laziness maybe. Stupid, sure. Like you said it does help leave more opportunity's for those that are capable and willing to pursue. As for the welding gig, in my more than 40 years in and around the business, I have never seen this much demand for competent welders associated with boilers. There is also plenty of demand for electrical buss welders, a niche for sure. No one gets rich packing a lunch but a single guy can live on it.

Quote: Face

Vicodin doesn't fog me whatsoever. In fact, it peps me up. It gives me a boost of energy like very weak cocaine or very strong caffeine. It doesn't remove my pain, but it does a very good job of taking away the edge.

Quote: Face

I agree, in that vikes are my favorite. OTC stuff is too weak. Oxy's make me nauseous. Vikes take enough off that I can get mobile and the only side effect, for me, is a little puff of energy.

The bad is my use is unlike yours. You have a procedure or an acute issue like stones, it's all good. But I've been on vikes for 12 years, and everything's only getting worse. Granted, I've only taken 2 x 5mg in the last 4 months or so when I separated my shoulder, but more or less constant use is likely going to be a permanent part of my life.

Getting addicted and OD'ing is a non issue for me. But burning my liver out is beyond plausible, I'd say it's probable. Having a wholly natural, cheap, and safe alternative sitting right there... it's bloody torturous.

Wow, you and I are a lot alike. A little puff of energy is exactly it. Especially adding vodka and whiskey to quicken the impact (at night only, 'natch). It's been about 12 years of the 5mg vikes for me too, and my doctor doesn't understand why my bloodwork is so skewed! (he doesn't supply them obv) I had blood drawn yesterday and get results Friday am, so I'm sure he'll tell me I'm in danger of having a stroke, or liver function is off-the-chart bad for someone my age. That's what he told me two years ago, and I'm sure it's much worse now that I've added percocets and morphine to the mix. For those of you who might be genuinely concerned, I'll report back Friday evening what he tells me. Maybe I should ask for a liver x-ray!

There was a time, right after I quit baseball when I was more a kamikaze style hockey player and fully into motocross, that I was taking 60mg a day. Figure that's 6,000mg of acetaminophen, per day, every day.

Fortunately I didn't burn out. But now, I can't even get a script in NY without a liver work up first.

If that doc isn't your supplier, you should at least let him know. At least that gives you the info to make a good decision.

Quote: Face

I agree, in that vikes are my favorite. OTC stuff is too weak. Oxy's make me nauseous. Vikes take enough off that I can get mobile and the only side effect, for me, is a little puff of energy.

The bad is my use is unlike yours. You have a procedure or an acute issue like stones, it's all good. But I've been on vikes for 12 years, and everything's only getting worse. Granted, I've only taken 2 x 5mg in the last 4 months or so when I separated my shoulder, but more or less constant use is likely going to be a permanent part of my life.

Percocet does about as good on just the pain for me, but if the stones are bad I need the "cloudy" feeling to get some sleep or just relax. This is because there is a stress that I know the pain will come back sooner or later. That pain coming while asleep is like you are sleeping and someone sticks a knife in your back. Or what it must be like your first night in prison and while asleep your cellie.........moving right along, lets just say it is quite stressful to deal with. Can't speak for Oxy, never had it.

Quote:

And I get this, 100%. But the reality doesn't jive. If prohibition actually worked, then maybe the fears would be valid. But it doesn't, so they don't.

Prohibition I don't see what it has to do with people wanting one or another kind of dope to escape life. My problem with legalization of pot is that use will only go up. And as I said, ask China the effects of a stoned out nation.

On another note, I saw a sign about drug turn-ins the cops were doing. Sign said, "bring your expired or used meds to turn in, no questions will be asked."

So just how on earth do you turn in USED meds?

Quote: Face

There was a time, right after I quit baseball when I was more a kamikaze style hockey player and fully into motocross, that I was taking 60mg a day. Figure that's 6,000mg of acetaminophen, per day, every day.

Yowza! That's hella lot! That'd be 12 pills per day, lot more than I'm taking (which is only about 2-3). But I've been a drinker longer than you've been alive (if I remember correctly), so there's that.

Quote: Face

If that doc isn't your supplier, you should at least let him know. At least that gives you the info to make a good decision.

A good decision about what exactly? Continuing? lol I know what I'm doing isn't good for me. I know the bill will come due at some point. My eyes are wide open. And I'm okay with it.