Israeli conflict

Quote: SOOPOO

The incineration of the tent camp full of civilians in Rafah will be the straw that breaks the camel’s back. Israel was attacked FROM Rafah as missiles flew from there towards Israel. All intercepted. Israel had of course a right to respond. But the modern nature of war requires some level of discretion, which Israel does not seem to have. I’m not sure what Israel can do that is appropriate in response to an entity that still is launching missiles at its cities, and holding the hundred remaining live hostages. Just whatever they are doing is an overall failure. If they lose US support, the game is over for them.

I don't believe there should be any "rules: if you are in a declared war. If a side does something heinous in the belief it can help them end the war sooner, I respect that.

Not even Biden is offended by the strike in Rafah, I do not see anything wrong with this action. When you strike in a densely populated city, civilians will probably die, it is sad, but that is how it goes. Also, it sounds like the only reason for the bulk of the casualties are because Hamas was hiding explosives and munitions in the population center (which the strike ignited....) I feel like this another strike that is being overblown by certain sources despite being quite routine.

Quote: Gandler

Not even Biden is offended by the strike in Rafah, I do not see anything wrong with this action. When you strike in a densely populated city, civilians will probably die, it is sad, but that is how it goes. Also, it sounds like the only reason for the bulk of the casualties are because Hamas was hiding explosives and munitions in the population center (which the strike ignited....) I feel like this another strike that is being overblown by certain sources despite being quite routine.

"that is how it goes" is a remark to be avoided, I guess it shows you're not a politician.

the NY Times cites "US officials" for the claim Biden's "line was not crossed". Quoting the article,

"The area that was hit on Sunday was not included in evacuation orders that Israel issued in early May, and some Palestinians sheltering in the camp said they had believed it was a safe zone." Under these circumstances, there needed to be good reason to do a strike

"The Israeli military said that the target of Sunday’s strike was a Hamas compound, and that “precise munitions” had been used to target a commander and another senior official there" It seems to me the Israelis put too much value in taking out leadership, it seems to be a revenge thing as much as anything. To use the word compound suggests it was set apart from the civilians.

It does seem to be another case of Hamas avoiding the blame for using their own people as human shields. As disgusting as that is, I wonder if the attack was necessary or wise. I'm not going to say it wasn't, not as a certainty ... for sure we know the IDF is glad the munitions got blown up

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/05/28/world/middleeast/rafah-strike-israel-biden.html

Quote: odiousgambit

"that is how it goes" is a remark to be avoided, I guess it shows you're not a politician.

the NY Times cites "US officials" for the claim Biden's "line was not crossed". Quoting the article,

"The area that was hit on Sunday was not included in evacuation orders that Israel issued in early May, and some Palestinians sheltering in the camp said they had believed it was a safe zone." Under these circumstances, there needed to be good reason to do a strike

"The Israeli military said that the target of Sunday’s strike was a Hamas compound, and that “precise munitions” had been used to target a commander and another senior official there" It seems to me the Israelis put too much value in taking out leadership, it seems to be a revenge thing as much as anything. To use the word compound suggests it was set apart from the civilians.

It does seem to be another case of Hamas avoiding the blame for using their own people as human shields. As disgusting as that is, I wonder if the attack was necessary or wise. I'm not going to say it wasn't, not as a certainty ... for sure we know the IDF is glad the munitions got blown up

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/05/28/world/middleeast/rafah-strike-israel-biden.html

I don't claim to be a politician (not do I have a desire to be.)

Hamas loads civilian areas with explosives and then launches strikes from there, and then when they get damaged, they act shocked. The whole thing is a ruse, and a longstanding play at victim politics.

I am sorry, but I do not feel the need to be polite to Hamas.

Quote: Gandler

I don't claim to be a politician (not do I have a desire to be.)

Hamas loads civilian areas with explosives and then launches strikes from there, and then when they get damaged, they act shocked. The whole thing is a ruse, and a longstanding play at victim politics.

I am sorry, but I do not feel the need to be polite to Hamas.

Israel just leveled a (neighborhood?) in attempt to kill a single (or maybe two?) Hamas leaders. After the rubble is cleared maybe 100 dead. A few hundred more injured.

I think this is different than targeting rocket launchers or munitions embedded in the civilian population.

This attack occurred in a ‘safe zone’ that was designated by Israel.

I don’t expect this particular mission to go over well in the international community, or even the United States, for that matter.

It does have the positive effect of telling the Gazans, ‘if you harbor a Hamas terrorist, you are taking your chances…’.

Quote: AZDuffman

Israel did not destroy it, the Palestinians did. Israel left large greenhouses when they pulled out in the 2000s. Instead of using them the Palestinians smashed and destroyed them. At every opportunity to make their lives better the Palestinians slapped it away.

Best thing would be evacuate the Palestinians to the Sinai and let Israel have Gaza, which is more its natural border anyhow.

Propaganda to de-humanise Palestinians.
Jewish settlers in Gaza left behind some hi-tech greenhouses to be used by Palestinians, but it was not totally altruistic. Israel sabotaged the success of the project by blocking export of crops produced. Yes. There was some looting of the greenhouses by some Palestinians.
Gazan agricultural sites including greenhouses are currently being systematically destroyed by Israeli military, alongside the destruction of the rest of the West Bank:Homes, hospitals, infrastructure.
Regardless of the reasons or excuses, of which there are many, Israel IS attempting genocide in the West Bank.

https://mondoweiss.net/2014/08/propaganda-dehumanize-palestinians/

Quote: SOOPOO

Israel just leveled a (neighborhood?) in attempt to kill a single (or maybe two?) Hamas leaders. After the rubble is cleared maybe 100 dead. A few hundred more injured.

I think this is different than targeting rocket launchers or munitions embedded in the civilian population.

This attack occurred in a ‘safe zone’ that was designated by Israel.

I don’t expect this particular mission to go over well in the international community, or even the United States, for that matter.

It does have the positive effect of telling the Gazans, ‘if you harbor a Hamas terrorist, you are taking your chances…’.

I am not sure the details of that safezone, but this is an important disclaimer in the article, "CNN has no way of verifying the casualty numbers reported by the ministry, which does not differentiate between civilians and combatants killed."

This will not go over well, but nothing Israel does goes over well.

It seems like the most recent articles are now unclear if Deif was actually killed in the attack or injured. If he is still alive (and retains power,) things will probably get messy. Deif is like Israel's Bin Laden, so if they had a chance to get him, it would be hard to resist (I think they have been after him since the early 90s, maybe 80s....)

It is possible that this strike will be good for peace if he died (and may cause hostages to be freed,) however, if he survived (which seems 50/50 now,) it may make peace harder, so it is way too early to see how this will play out.

Quote: OnceDear

Propaganda to de-humanise Palestinians.
Jewish settlers in Gaza left behind some hi-tech greenhouses to be used by Palestinians, but it was not totally altruistic. Israel sabotaged the success of the project by blocking export of crops produced. Yes. There was some looting of the greenhouses by some Palestinians.
Gazan agricultural sites including greenhouses are currently being systematically destroyed by Israeli military, alongside the destruction of the rest of the West Bank:Homes, hospitals, infrastructure.
Regardless of the reasons or excuses, of which there are many, Israel IS attempting genocide in the West Bank.

https://mondoweiss.net/2014/08/propaganda-dehumanize-palestinians/

Defending itself? Yes. Genocide? Not even close. Quit misusing the term.

https://www.cnn.com/2024/08/06/middleeast/israeli-minister-smotrich-starve-gazans-intl/index.html
WTF
Just and moral to starve 2 million Gazans
Is this the final solution
Wow

Quote: terapined

https://www.cnn.com/2024/08/06/middleeast/israeli-minister-smotrich-starve-gazans-intl/index.html
WTF
Just and moral to starve 2 million Gazans
Is this the final solution
Wow

Release the hostages and no one starves. Keep the hostages and be prepared for the onslaught. It’s really simple.