Israeli conflict

Quote: terapined

Criticizing Israel policies is not pro Hamas
I have been criticizing Israel policies my entire life
NY ultra Orthodox jews are totally against Israel

I did not say it was. But, working for an organization that funnels money to Hamas, is pro-Hamas.

There are a lot of useful idiots in America (and Europe for that matter,) that think they are standing up for the little guy by supporting Palestine. When is reality they are marching in a terror-led march. They also know almost nothing about the region or the history, and are just taught that Israel is bad (this is most of the demonstrators by the way.)

There are two types of people who are against Israel, pro-Hamas people, and useful idiots. No American who values western values and knows the history would be against Israel.

UO Jews tend to be just as nutty as Hamas (even if -generally- less violent,) so I am not super interested in what they support or oppose.

Quote: Gandler

I did not say it was. But, working for an organization that funnels money to Hamas, is pro-Hamas.

There are a lot of useful idiots in America (and Europe for that matter,) that think they are standing up for the little guy by supporting Palestine. When is reality they are marching in a terror-led march. They also know almost nothing about the region or the history, and are just taught that Israel is bad (this is most of the demonstrators by the way.)

There are two types of people who are against Israel, pro-Hamas people, and useful idiots. No American who values western values and knows the history would be against Israel.

UO Jews tend to be just as nutty as Hamas (even if -generally- less violent,) so I am not super interested in what they support or oppose.

Israel has turned the Gaza strip into a wasteland - more than half of it has been destroyed and is uninhabitable
I saw one news report indicating it would take 80 years to completely rebuild Gaza - not sure how accurate that is - but still
the idea that anyone who criticizes Israel's conduct of the war is way out of bounds is ludicrous
yes, imo Israel had a right to respond when they were attacked by Hamas
but they didn't have to do it this way -
it's a terrible tragedy and anyone who doesn't have any feeling for innocent people who have been killed or disabled or made homeless imo is just plain wrong

a person can be critical of Israel's policies without being anti-Israel

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Quote: PotPie

Israel has turned the Gaza strip into a wasteland - more than half of it has been destroyed and is uninhabitable
I saw one news report indicating it would take 80 years to completely rebuild Gaza - not sure how accurate that is - but still
the idea that anyone who criticizes Israel's conduct of the war is way out of bounds is ludicrous
yes, imo Israel had a right to respond when they were attacked by Hamas
but they didn't have to do it this way -
it's a terrible tragedy and anyone who doesn't have any feeling for innocent people who have been killed or disabled or made homeless imo is just plain wrong

a person can be critical of Israel's policies without being anti-Israel

.

Israel did not destroy it, the Palestinians did. Israel left large greenhouses when they pulled out in the 2000s. Instead of using them the Palestinians smashed and destroyed them. At every opportunity to make their lives better the Palestinians slapped it away.

Best thing would be evacuate the Palestinians to the Sinai and let Israel have Gaza, which is more its natural border anyhow.

Quote: PotPie

Israel has turned the Gaza strip into a wasteland - more than half of it has been destroyed and is uninhabitable
I saw one news report indicating it would take 80 years to completely rebuild Gaza - not sure how accurate that is - but still
the idea that anyone who criticizes Israel's conduct of the war is way out of bounds is ludicrous
yes, imo Israel had a right to respond when they were attacked by Hamas
but they didn't have to do it this way -
it's a terrible tragedy and anyone who doesn't have any feeling for innocent people who have been killed or disabled or made homeless imo is just plain wrong

a person can be critical of Israel's policies without being anti-Israel

.

Israel is going a mass evacuation of the civilians when they attack Gaza, and do endless broadcast warnings of where they are going to attack. When Gaza attacks Israel they target the civilians. That is the difference.

My sympathy for Gaza is quite limited given how they have acted for the last two decades. They always attack, and then play the victim.

Quote: Gandler

My sympathy for Gaza is quite limited given how they have acted for the last two decades. They always attack, and then play the victim.

I don't believe in Gaza as a singular and that's the problem with Israel supporters
It's millions with millions of different opinions and views.
I have a lot of compassion for Civilian Families and their Children. That is what comprises the majority of Gaza. Innocent victims.
There are innocent victims on both sides.
Israel wants you to believe nobody in Gaza is innocent and that's absurd

Quote: Gandler

Israel is going a mass evacuation of the civilians when they attack Gaza,
my sympathy for Gaza is quite limited

you describe this as if Israel is doing a kind thing

thousands of people have become homeless

no place to lay their heads - hoping some other place will help them and feel for them - that's very unlikely

they're going to end up living in tents scrounging for food every day

your sympathy for Gaza is limited - how about the children - no sympathy for them either____________?


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Quote: terapined

I don't believe in Gaza as a singular and that's the problem with Israel supporters
It's millions with millions of different opinions and views.
I have a lot of compassion for Civilian Families and their Children. That is what comprises the majority of Gaza. Innocent victims.
There are innocent victims on both sides.
Israel wants you to believe nobody in Gaza is innocent and that's absurd

Hamas is the government of Gaza, so when they take action is does represent Gaza as an entity.

Israel say nobody is innocent, they spend a lot of time showing how much they do to prevent civilian causalities.

The unfortunate thing is Israel is the group that is portrayed as the group that is evil, when they are not even in the same real as Hamas.

Quote: PotPie

you describe this as if Israel is doing a kind thing

thousands of people have become homeless

no place to lay their heads - hoping some other place will help them and feel for them - that's very unlikely

they're going to end up living in tents scrounging for food every day

your sympathy for Gaza is limited - how about the children - no sympathy for them either____________?
.

There is a difference between sympathy for individuals and Gaza as an entity, it is easy to look at it as an entity. And, Gaza has been quite terrible my whole life (and beyond.)

Quote: PotPie

you describe this as if Israel is doing a kind thing

thousands of people have become homeless

no place to lay their heads - hoping some other place will help them and feel for them - that's very unlikely

they're going to end up living in tents scrounging for food every day

your sympathy for Gaza is limited - how about the children - no sympathy for them either____________?


.

Maybe if they put their energy to building themselves up instead of to kill as many Israelis as possible they would not be in the mess they are in? Even KSA and UAE seem to have had enough of them, getting friendly with Israel instead brings far more benefits.

I can't support slowing down aid where there are also civilians, or support dropping 2000lbs taking out a city block, unless its warranted.

Doesn't matter who is doing it. Russia, Iran, Israel, US, UK, anyone.


It's just basic proper conduct of war, which is bad enough even when conducted properly.

And we aren't talking a country with only crude weapons available.

The incineration of the tent camp full of civilians in Rafah will be the straw that breaks the camel’s back. Israel was attacked FROM Rafah as missiles flew from there towards Israel. All intercepted. Israel had of course a right to respond. But the modern nature of war requires some level of discretion, which Israel does not seem to have. I’m not sure what Israel can do that is appropriate in response to an entity that still is launching missiles at its cities, and holding the hundred remaining live hostages. Just whatever they are doing is an overall failure. If they lose US support, the game is over for them.