ROEvember is Coming

Quote: Tanko

It is. The Republican Party will be finished off permanently in 2024 because of the abortion issue. No matter what may be happening with the economy.

That still does not justify ripping apart a fetus that can feel pain. Especially when the fetus is viable.

The death of a political party is often talked about when they are losing often; in reality it has been a while since one has actually died.

When the pendulum goes too far one way, it swings back just as far the other way.

Parties will change. Change is necessary.

Quote: SOOPOO

As long as you fully understand that virtually no one agrees with you, feel free to believe as you do. Since you are going to die, why do you care so much about the ambient temperature?

Obviously I don't care what others think about me in this regard and I do realize that most others are naive. I definitely want to be comfortable while I am alive but I also realize the end will be here soon enough. I am all about enjoying what I do have without compromising what I enjoy for a longer future because none of us know when our last day will be.

Quote: Tanko

It is. The Republican Party will be finished off permanently in 2024 because of the abortion issue. No matter what may be happening with the economy.

That still does not justify ripping apart a fetus that can feel pain. Especially when the fetus is viable.

It won't be finished off in 2024 (maybe not ever.) But, the GOP is already losing ground in two cycles in elections that everyone (myself included) thought completely had in the bag (should not have even been close.)

As for justifying draconian laws based on the belief that it can feel pain, maybe it can to a degree (hard to quantify). But, it is by definition owned by the mother as it is in her body (and her paind), so she gets the final say. Also, lots of living can feel more pain than fetuses that you support killing (and have a higher level of conciseness, and are self-sufficient,) and my guess is you support killing them..... So it is really not about the pain argument, that is just a stretch to make religious based laws.

Quote: Gandler

It won't be finished off in 2024 (maybe not ever.) But, the GOP is already losing ground in two cycles in elections that everyone (myself included) thought completely had in the bag (should not have even been close.)

As for justifying draconian laws based on the belief that it can feel pain, maybe it can to a degree (hard to quantify). But, it is by definition owned by the mother as it is in her body (and her paind), so she gets the final say. Also, lots of living can feel more pain than fetuses that you support killing (and have a higher level of conciseness, and are self-sufficient,) and my guess is you support killing them..... So it is really not about the pain argument, that is just a stretch to make religious based laws.

Are you talking about the GOP that won more seats in the House than the Democrats? That PICKED UP seats, not list them?

Oh yeah…. I forget…. The Democrats were so bad the Republicans should have picked up more seats…..

And it’s not like the Republicans were hiding their abortion views when they won the MAJORITY in the house.

Now on this I agree with you. The Democrat platform is OVERALL so bad for America that if the Republicans dropped their stupid abortion plank, we would have an idiot (Boebert, Gaetz, Greene) proof majority in the House, and a small majority in the Senate.

Quote: SOOPOO

Are you talking about the GOP that won more seats in the House than the Democrats? That PICKED UP seats, not list them?

Oh yeah…. I forget…. The Democrats were so bad the Republicans should have picked up more seats…..

And it’s not like the Republicans were hiding their abortion views when they won the MAJORITY in the house.

Now on this I agree with you. The Democrat platform is OVERALL so bad for America that if the Republicans dropped their stupid abortion plank, we would have an idiot (Boebert, Gaetz, Greene) proof majority in the House, and a small majority in the Senate.

SOOPOO, we have talked about this in the past, they won more seats but still lost public opinion, because they were projected to win far more..... This is a loss compared to the level that was projected. And, they did not win the Senate (which again they should have easily.) Doing far worse than everyone is projecting (especially on "easy" races) is a loss.

You are right, the GOP has had the same mindset for a while. But, it has been a moot point because of Roe, now that Roe is repealed, they can actually inform policy based on their primary issue, this is why abortion is becoming the top issue again. Roe was far better for the GOP than the Dems (you may not agree, but it is a statement of fact.)

Last cycle was a partial win (being generous) for the GOP, they did not win the Senate (easily should have), and they won less than projected in the house. It was not the platinum lock that you keep pretending that it is.

https://harvardpolitics.com/2022-midterm-election-forecast/
(An example of a forecast shortly before the election, which was a couple days prior, earlier forecasts were far more red....) You can do your own research back to June and see in real time how many votes they lost as Roe was overturned.... It is not a hidden attribute, people call it "Roevember" for a reason...

Constantly saying they won the house so abortion does not matter politically, is a huge misnomer. They were always going to win the house, they lost many races that they should have (and ended up winning by a small margin only.)

Quote: RonC

Perhaps that bit of humanity should come from those who support the killing of the fetus.

Wait...they can't acknowledge that the being created can feel pain because they actually have to acknowledge openly that it is a living being and that it feels pain when killed.

I am pragmatic about abortion and I know it will continue to be a losing issue for Republicans as long as they try to shorten the period is allowed to happen. Until every State has settled law that is not easily challenged or changed (unlike Roe, which was a flawed decision as acknowledged even by people in favor of the decision) and people in the US Congress stop trying to get involved, it will be an election issue. Republicans have work to do to face that and make the rest of their message better. They are not doing that.

At some point after conception, but prior to birth, it becomes a living being that can likely feel pain. I also don't really care.

Quote: Mission146

At some point after conception, but prior to birth, it becomes a living being that can likely feel pain. I also don't really care.

You are a wise man.

Quote: rxwine

We've already one idiot Judge in Texas trying to block the Plan b options. And states trying to create citizen lawsuits for crossing state lines. Still doing everything they can to bring back the alley and use for metal coat hangers.

That collection of newly fertilized cells can probably feel pain.

Quote: ams288

The gaslighting is getting out of control.

How many GOP-led red states that have implemented a 15 week abortion ban, and not something far more extreme?

I seem to remember a 10 year old rape victim being forced to flee Ohio to terminate her rapist’s spawn.

Yeah; she had to go to that liberal hotbed of Indiana, where Mike Pence is from, to do so.

Quote: Tanko

It is. The Republican Party will be finished off permanently in 2024 because of the abortion issue. No matter what may be happening with the economy.

That still does not justify ripping apart a fetus that can feel pain. Especially when the fetus is viable.

At what point, relative to conception, do Christians believe fetuses are awarded their souls? If post-conception, but prior to birth, then wouldn't it be a positive that the fetus gets to die without ever having committed sin, and therefore, can only go to Heaven?

I know, I know---it depends on whether or not baptism is considered strictly necessary, whether or not that baptism has to be a free will choice, whether or not baptism is required at all (Holy Ghost path) etc., etc.,...but I'm pretty sure if you have a soul and die without sin, you're in, right?