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The Trump Impeachment Thread
| December 23rd, 2019 at 1:58:04 PM permalink | |
| RonC Member since: Nov 7, 2012 Threads: 8 Posts: 2510 |
I would bet "Yes" on that one...for one US Dollar... First, they are already talking about it. Second, as much as I think the current impeachment is a sham, I also believe that a President can easily let ego take over and step over the line. President Trump has ego plus... If the real evidence is there, there is really nothing that can be done to stop an impeachment and to get votes for removal from both sides. |
| December 23rd, 2019 at 2:01:26 PM permalink | |
| RonC Member since: Nov 7, 2012 Threads: 8 Posts: 2510 |
Well, the first thing is that they would have been able to call witnesses that the Democrats did not want to have heard. Nothing to debunk, hold the vote and move on. |
| December 23rd, 2019 at 2:12:30 PM permalink | |
| SOOPOO Member since: Feb 19, 2014 Threads: 22 Posts: 4175 |
Is this a troll post? How can the Republican-controlled Senate call perhaps the most important witness, the whistleblower, when the democrat controlled house keeps him hidden? |
| December 23rd, 2019 at 3:15:41 PM permalink | |
| Dalex64 Member since: Mar 8, 2014 Threads: 3 Posts: 3687 | Because in a senate impeachment trial, they can call whoever they want? It will be out of the hands of the democrats in the house. "Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts." Daniel Patrick Moynihan |
| December 23rd, 2019 at 4:17:31 PM permalink | |
| SOOPOO Member since: Feb 19, 2014 Threads: 22 Posts: 4175 |
Correct me if I'm wrong (certainly possible), but haven't the Democrats kept the identity of the whistleblower secret? The concept of being able to confront your accuser is central to American jurisprudence. How can you determine the credibility of a witness if you cannot question him? If the Dems ever send over the articles to the Senate, I am sure the Repubs will want the name. I wonder if Shiff refuses if he will be held in contempt of Congress? Or claim some sort of 'privilege'.... you know, the same kind of 'privilege' Trump is being impeached for.... |
| December 23rd, 2019 at 4:46:39 PM permalink | |
| Dalex64 Member since: Mar 8, 2014 Threads: 3 Posts: 3687 |
Now would be the time, during a trial, to issue a subpoena to the whistleblower to appear. I am unaware of anything that could prevent that. To continue with the protection against retaliation, they could be deposed in private. The purpose of the secrecy is to keep the whistleblower protected from reprisal. I have also read that it isn't explicitly illegal to reveal the identity of a whistleblower, but it is illegal to impede an investigation, so the Republicans have been very careful not to shoot themselves in the foot while at the same time blaming the democrats for keeping his name a secret. It's sorta like how the Republicans stormed the closed-door committee hearings, complaining that they are being shut out, yet the committee has republicans serving on it and present at the hearing. It makes good theatre. As for the integrity of the witness, if other public witnesses have corroborated what the whistleblower said, there really isn't a need to talk to the whistleblower. The whistleblower blows the whistle, the inspector general deems the complaint credible, witnesses are found to corroborate the whisleblower's statement, the witness statements are entered and used as evidence. People also seem to get hung up on how only the contents of the "phone call" or the original whistleblower complaint are the only things that can be acted on, and that isn't true - that just starts the investigation. The other thing I have seen is people insisting on "proof" at this stage. Under the concept of "innocent until proven guilty" you can't prove someone is guilty until their trial. In this case, the trial is in the Senate, with the senators as the jury, and they are the ones who decide if the evidence proves guilt. "Impeachment" is more like "indictment" or "has been charged with". I am sure the democrats want a trial in the Senate, under trial-like rules, where they also can subpoena witnesses and see who will be held in contempt or charged with obstruction. The democrats want witnesses. Trump and his ego want witnesses. McConnell wants no witnesses and wants this over ASAP because he knows nothing good can come from a real trial. "Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts." Daniel Patrick Moynihan |
| December 23rd, 2019 at 9:19:10 PM permalink | |
| Evenbob Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 146 Posts: 25011 | Panel after panel of constitutional lawyers and law professors are all saying Mitch McConnell doesn't need be physically presented with the Articles of impeachment. It's just a formality. He can go ahead and start the trial and acquit Trump. He could also with a 51 majority vote clarify whether the Senate actually needs to be physically handed the impeachment articles. Pelosi has screwed the pooch on this one, she's making a real ass out of herself. If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose. |
| December 23rd, 2019 at 9:22:18 PM permalink | |
| Evenbob Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 146 Posts: 25011 |
Would they really be that stupid? Trump is more popular than ever since the impeachment started. Many people predicted this because it happened with Clinton. If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose. |
| December 24th, 2019 at 12:42:47 AM permalink | |
| rxwine Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 189 Posts: 18762 |
The only thing I read is his numbers are now similar to Nixon. He's not doing as well as Clinton was during his impeachment. You believe in an invisible god, and dismiss people who say they are trans? Really? |
| December 24th, 2019 at 12:53:21 AM permalink | |
| Evenbob Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 146 Posts: 25011 |
You do realize 50 year old poll numbers are meaningless when comparing to modern ones. The polling now is much more exact and scientific. If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose. |