The Trump Impeachment Thread

December 23rd, 2019 at 1:58:04 PM permalink
RonC
Member since: Nov 7, 2012
Threads: 7
Posts: 1408
Quote: Dalex64
Will Trump become the first president to be impeached more than once?


I would bet "Yes" on that one...for one US Dollar...

First, they are already talking about it.

Second, as much as I think the current impeachment is a sham, I also believe that a President can easily let ego take over and step over the line. President Trump has ego plus... If the real evidence is there, there is really nothing that can be done to stop an impeachment and to get votes for removal from both sides.
China Lied...How Many There Really Died?
December 23rd, 2019 at 2:01:26 PM permalink
RonC
Member since: Nov 7, 2012
Threads: 7
Posts: 1408
Quote: rxwine
That's some wild speculation that in all the hours of testimony, something of any merit was missed by Republicans.

Like I said, the Republican controlled senate has a chance to call all the witnesses they want to debunk the claim they didn't get witnesses. THAT'S ALL THEY HAVE TO DO.


Well, the first thing is that they would have been able to call witnesses that the Democrats did not want to have heard.

Nothing to debunk, hold the vote and move on.
China Lied...How Many There Really Died?
December 23rd, 2019 at 2:12:30 PM permalink
SOOPOO
Member since: Feb 19, 2014
Threads: 14
Posts: 2137
Quote: rxwine
That's some wild speculation that in all the hours of testimony, something of any merit was missed by Republicans.

Like I said, the Republican controlled senate has a chance to call all the witnesses they want to debunk the claim they didn't get witnesses. THAT'S ALL THEY HAVE TO DO.


Is this a troll post? How can the Republican-controlled Senate call perhaps the most important witness, the whistleblower, when the democrat controlled house keeps him hidden?
December 23rd, 2019 at 3:15:41 PM permalink
Dalex64
Member since: Mar 8, 2014
Threads: 3
Posts: 3294
Because in a senate impeachment trial, they can call whoever they want?
It will be out of the hands of the democrats in the house.
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts." Daniel Patrick Moynihan
December 23rd, 2019 at 4:17:31 PM permalink
SOOPOO
Member since: Feb 19, 2014
Threads: 14
Posts: 2137
Quote: Dalex64
Because in a senate impeachment trial, they can call whoever they want?
It will be out of the hands of the democrats in the house.


Correct me if I'm wrong (certainly possible), but haven't the Democrats kept the identity of the whistleblower secret? The concept of being able to confront your accuser is central to American jurisprudence. How can you determine the credibility of a witness if you cannot question him? If the Dems ever send over the articles to the Senate, I am sure the Repubs will want the name. I wonder if Shiff refuses if he will be held in contempt of Congress? Or claim some sort of 'privilege'.... you know, the same kind of 'privilege' Trump is being impeached for....
December 23rd, 2019 at 4:46:39 PM permalink
Dalex64
Member since: Mar 8, 2014
Threads: 3
Posts: 3294
Quote: SOOPOO
Correct me if I'm wrong (certainly possible), but haven't the Democrats kept the identity of the whistleblower secret? The concept of being able to confront your accuser is central to American jurisprudence. How can you determine the credibility of a witness if you cannot question him? If the Dems ever send over the articles to the Senate, I am sure the Repubs will want the name. I wonder if Shiff refuses if he will be held in contempt of Congress? Or claim some sort of 'privilege'.... you know, the same kind of 'privilege' Trump is being impeached for....


Now would be the time, during a trial, to issue a subpoena to the whistleblower to appear. I am unaware of anything that could prevent that.

To continue with the protection against retaliation, they could be deposed in private. The purpose of the secrecy is to keep the whistleblower protected from reprisal.

I have also read that it isn't explicitly illegal to reveal the identity of a whistleblower, but it is illegal to impede an investigation, so the Republicans have been very careful not to shoot themselves in the foot while at the same time blaming the democrats for keeping his name a secret.

It's sorta like how the Republicans stormed the closed-door committee hearings, complaining that they are being shut out, yet the committee has republicans serving on it and present at the hearing. It makes good theatre.

As for the integrity of the witness, if other public witnesses have corroborated what the whistleblower said, there really isn't a need to talk to the whistleblower.

The whistleblower blows the whistle, the inspector general deems the complaint credible, witnesses are found to corroborate the whisleblower's statement, the witness statements are entered and used as evidence.

People also seem to get hung up on how only the contents of the "phone call" or the original whistleblower complaint are the only things that can be acted on, and that isn't true - that just starts the investigation.

The other thing I have seen is people insisting on "proof" at this stage. Under the concept of "innocent until proven guilty" you can't prove someone is guilty until their trial. In this case, the trial is in the Senate, with the senators as the jury, and they are the ones who decide if the evidence proves guilt.

"Impeachment" is more like "indictment" or "has been charged with".

I am sure the democrats want a trial in the Senate, under trial-like rules, where they also can subpoena witnesses and see who will be held in contempt or charged with obstruction.

The democrats want witnesses. Trump and his ego want witnesses. McConnell wants no witnesses and wants this over ASAP because he knows nothing good can come from a real trial.
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts." Daniel Patrick Moynihan
December 23rd, 2019 at 9:19:10 PM permalink
Evenbob
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 138
Posts: 21562
Panel after panel of constitutional lawyers and
law professors are all saying Mitch McConnell
doesn't need be physically presented with the
Articles of impeachment. It's just a formality. He
can go ahead and start the trial and acquit
Trump. He could also with a 51 majority vote
clarify whether the Senate actually needs to be
physically handed the impeachment articles.
Pelosi has screwed the pooch on this one, she's
making a real ass out of herself.
If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.
December 23rd, 2019 at 9:22:18 PM permalink
Evenbob
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 138
Posts: 21562
Quote: Dalex64
Will Trump become the first president to be impeached more than once?


Would they really be that stupid? Trump is more
popular than ever since the impeachment started.
Many people predicted this because it happened
with Clinton.
If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.
December 24th, 2019 at 12:42:47 AM permalink
rxwine
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 143
Posts: 9925
Quote: Evenbob
Would they really be that stupid? Trump is more
popular than ever since the impeachment started.
Many people predicted this because it happened
with Clinton.


The only thing I read is his numbers are now similar to Nixon. He's not doing as well as Clinton was during his impeachment.
Where dummies go one they go all
December 24th, 2019 at 12:53:21 AM permalink
Evenbob
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 138
Posts: 21562
Quote: rxwine
The only thing I read is his numbers are now similar to Nixon.


You do realize 50 year old poll
numbers are meaningless when
comparing to modern ones.
The polling now is much more
exact and scientific.
If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.