The Trump implosion thread!

Quote: Dalex64

Trump wants to save lives: "You are going to have suicides by the thousands — you are going to have all sorts of things happen."

There are so many deaths that this will cause that are not directly attributable to the shutdown, but will be deaths nonetheless.

You were scheduled for an elective breast biopsy that your doctor told you had a 99% chance of being benign. This doctor does 100 such a week. The wholesale cancellations subject 1 patient to a delay in cancer diagnosis. That patient has a higher chance of dying.

You used to exercise regularly but now are quarantined without access to the equipment/resources you had. Your overall health goes down. Obesity worsens.
Mortality increases.

You were scheduled for routine MD visit. Blood pressure now up and you would have been put on new meds. Not now. Stroke occurs that could have been prevented.

You have non COVID pulmonary issues. You normally would go to hospital for treatment, but person on phone tells you NOT to go until you are sicker because it sounds like you might have COVID. Delay in treatment results in death.

I could go on and on..... Point being that there will be LOTS of deaths that would not have happened if the shutdown would not have happened. We just will never be able to quantify them. I think the suicides will be one of the few quantifiable causes.

I wonder how many lives are being saved by people not being in smoke filled casinos?
How many lives being saved by significant decrease in major traffic accidents?
By the significant decrease in air pollution?

The decision on when to 'open the economy' will be an extremely difficult one. NO ONE thought of closing the economy to prevent most of the 30,000 flu deaths! NO ONE. No one thought it was worth quarantining grandma or grandpa to protect them. Young person gets flu, has a shitty week, gets better. Grandma gets the flu, may die. The 'economy' does kill people. But it is what allows us to live as we do.

Quote: SOOPOO

There are so many deaths that this will cause that are not directly attributable to the shutdown, but will be deaths nonetheless.

You were scheduled for an elective breast biopsy that your doctor told you had a 99% chance of being benign. This doctor does 100 such a week. The wholesale cancellations subject 1 patient to a delay in cancer diagnosis. That patient has a higher chance of dying.

You used to exercise regularly but now are quarantined without access to the equipment/resources you had. Your overall health goes down. Obesity worsens.
Mortality increases.

You were scheduled for routine MD visit. Blood pressure now up and you would have been put on new meds. Not now. Stroke occurs that could have been prevented.

You have non COVID pulmonary issues. You normally would go to hospital for treatment, but person on phone tells you NOT to go until you are sicker because it sounds like you might have COVID. Delay in treatment results in death.

I could go on and on..... Point being that there will be LOTS of deaths that would not have happened if the shutdown would not have happened. We just will never be able to quantify them. I think the suicides will be one of the few quantifiable causes.

I wonder how many lives are being saved by people not being in smoke filled casinos?
How many lives being saved by significant decrease in major traffic accidents?
By the significant decrease in air pollution?

The decision on when to 'open the economy' will be an extremely difficult one. NO ONE thought of closing the economy to prevent most of the 30,000 flu deaths! NO ONE. No one thought it was worth quarantining grandma or grandpa to protect them. Young person gets flu, has a shitty week, gets better. Grandma gets the flu, may die. The 'economy' does kill people. But it is what allows us to live as we do.

Another excellent and balanced post SOOPOO.

Yes, it is nice to see something that isn't all hype and hyperbole.

I wonder if anyone will report on a decrease in traffic fatalities.

Quote: Dalex64

Yes, it is nice to see something that isn't all hype and hyperbole.

I wonder if anyone will report on a decrease in traffic fatalities.

I don't know how much good news the news channels allow time for on a daily basis.

Quote: SOOPOO

There are so many deaths that this will cause that are not directly attributable to the shutdown, but will be deaths nonetheless.

I could go on and on..... Point being that there will be LOTS of deaths that would not have happened if the shutdown would not have happened. We just will never be able to quantify them. I think the suicides will be one of the few quantifiable causes.

I would also add deaths from stress issues. People are losing jobs that fed their families. Proud people. People who don't want to be on government assistance. They'll take it, because it keeps them fed and with a home. The stress of the bills the can't pay, lack of work, not knowing what will happen, etc. will kill people in ways other than suicide.

I am not in favor of just opening the economy up right away. but we need to open up the pieces we can as soon as practical.

Quote:

NO ONE thought of closing the economy to prevent most of the 30,000 flu deaths! NO ONE.

So all these current reports from Italy, Spain and China were just being ignored, because it was all same same same. Hospitals were overwhelmed, extra buildings were being used, and I just missed it. Dang it.

Is that what you're saying?

Quote: RonC

I would also add deaths from stress issues. People are losing jobs that fed their families. Proud people. People who don't want to be on government assistance. They'll take it, because it keeps them fed and with a home. The stress of the bills the can't pay, lack of work, not knowing what will happen, etc. will kill people in ways other than suicide.

I am not in favor of just opening the economy up right away. but we need to open up the pieces we can as soon as practical.

My younger son has a job where he goes in and sits in a cubicle all day. Only 6 workers. He says the office is 'rated' to have 40 workers. So when NYS went to half capacity, all showed up. When they went to quarter capacity all showed up. But his business is non-essential, so the lockdown makes it illegal to go in. He is ok as he is working from home, but less efficiently. If someone was able to look at each specific job and work environment, there are certainly many that could be open with no to very little additional risk. Just who would make that determination is the problem.

I've heard, I think on a scrawl on the ESPN channel, that the stadium projects in LA and Vegas ARE NOT SHUTDOWN? can anyone confirm this?

Quote: SOOPOO

I've heard, I think on a scrawl on the ESPN channel, that the stadium projects in LA and Vegas ARE NOT SHUTDOWN? can anyone confirm this?

I see a good bit of movement on the webcam for Allegiant Stadium...

https://www.raiders.com/lasvegas/allegiant-stadium-live-cam

Circa...

https://oxblue.com/pro/videoRedirect.php?videoCamID=ea38eb492fab3c623b540d95117a8cce

Quote: rxwine

So all these current reports from Italy, Spain and China were just being ignored, because it was all same same same. Hospitals were overwhelmed, extra buildings were being used, and I just missed it. Dang it.

Is that what you're saying?

No, that's not what i am saying. I am pseudo self quarantined, and have been for two weeks. I applaud the efforts to limit the deaths from coronavirus. My point is that it is possible that coronavirus deaths will not reach flu deaths in the US this season. I've detailed in a previous post the additional loss of life our response has caused, even if not quantifiable. I've lauded our capitalistic health care system that is limiting deaths per case to a small fraction of that of Italy, Spain, etc....
Just when you see 1000 deaths, which is the US total now, it is not as big a number as you think.

I've also said this before..... 1100 Africans will die today because of malaria. If we truly believe that life is important, why do not we supply anti-malarials to Africa?

Quote: SOOPOO

I've also said this before..... 1100 Africans will die today because of malaria. If we truly believe that life is important, why do not we supply anti-malarials to Africa?

Isn't that easy to answer? Same reason you would probably pay for your own family to receive medical care rather than sending it to your neighbor.

Same reason you're more likely to buy girl scout cookies from the little girl at your door and not the ones in Nigeria.