Was Jesus God?

Quote: FrGamble

What if you really believed that and the government said you had to send adoptions to Christian parents that were married with a mom and a dad?

So you admit the Church practices discrimination,
then. Rather a child be denied loving parents, than
parents who have a lifestyle you disagree with. That's
Catholic love in action.

Quote: FrGamble

You are reading something into my comments that is simply not there.

Nice try. You're wrong.

Quote: Evenbob

Nice try. You're wrong.

Dial the hate back and relax, you are going to give yourself a stroke.

Quote: FrGamble

I know the written form of communication is not the best in determining attitude and tone but I assure you there is nothing condescending to you or Nareed in anything I say.

They say fish aren't aware of water because they are so used to swimming in it.

Quote: AZDuffman

Dial the hate back and relax, you are going to give yourself a stroke.

Yeah, right. There is zero emotion attached
to what I write, I got over that decades ago.

edited

Quote: FrGamble

What if you really believed that and the government said you had to send adoptions to Christian parents that were married with a mom and a dad?

I'd ask: why are you avoiding my question?

Quote: FrGamble

This is what I have been saying all along.

Something about fish, water and Sheldon Cooper would seem appropriate here.

Quote:

You have made up your mind that the Church is against you and you are not listening to reason or me. The Church is basing its teaching on nature, the complementarity of males and females, that children are best raised with a mom and a dad, and the importance of being in an exclusive loving covenant of the Sacrament of marriage. Can you argue with any of these points without resorting to just saying I'm being mean or the Church is wrong?

Let's get down to concretes. If a lesbian or a gay man asked you "How can I live a virtuous life?" what would you answer? Other than prayer, rituals, accepting this or that as something or other, and attending church and such, what is the virtuous path? I mean, if a serial killer asked you the same question, you'd certainly advise him not to kill anyone, right? Because I don't think you can call him virtuous if he accepts Jesus, prays every minute of the day and sets up camp in church, but also kills someone every week, confesses this to a priest, repents about it, and asks God to forgive him.

Here's your chance. I'm listening.

40.6% of babies in the USA are born to unmarried women. You can have babies without marriage so there is a purpose of sex outside of marriage that isn't recreational. The reverse question should be asked: for women who are barren or are menopausal but are married, can sex occur for recreational purposes? Absolutely.

Nareed, I would purport for you that the CATHOLIC Christian faith might not be for you. The answer to this question "How can I live a virtuous life?" in a few churches would be for you to have a sexual relationship inside of a committed relationship and to have a church sanctioned gay marriage before you can do so.

My answer to you would be not to have gay sex. But then I would tell you that Jesus valued relationships over the rule. Nobody is capable of living a virtuous life. I'm not. My pastor cannot. The Pope cannot. But Jesus also respected the Law as well.

In the Christian faith, it is far more important to God that you follow Jesus then be perfect. Jesus' lineage included prostitutes and people with horrible stories. His disciples included murderers (Saul) and tax collectors. He did not hang out with the perfect beings. He hung out and sought ordinary people including the destitute, the poor, the sick, the hungry, and the persecuted to follow Him.

If you were to walk into a church next Sunday, you will experience a form of guilt and you will eventually feel unwelcome. That is because some people at church are a bunch of righteous hypocrites who think their religious beliefs make them better than you. They are not.

The correct way for a pastor to treat you (and the congregation following Jesus) is through love. That doesn't mean to ignore the word. He should still preach the virtues of the laws in the bible. Part of the church teaching of the bible is to teach followers of Him how to live which will include the church's interpretation of sexual relationships. It means that you will experience a twang of hurt and guilt when the pastor talks about homosexual relationships. It doesn't mean that you aren't welcome in the church or that you are a lesser person because of it. It just means that he has touched upon a subject where you are acting contrary to the teachings, as WE ALL ARE.

Now you may say, "well, I'm not going to an institution that tells me that my sexual practice is wrong". So be it. I don't blame you. But every single person who goes to church will have the same experience. I have. Some won't repent. We are not to judge.

Quote: Nareed

Something about fish, water and Sheldon Cooper would seem appropriate here.

Concerning the fish in water statement I do believe it goes both ways. I also hope that this forum is one way I try to make sure I'm not oblivious to the water I'm swimming in. I would hope that you or others on the forum would be able to clearly show where and how I am not thinking right about certain things and help me gain perspective. This has already happened numerous times here at DT. However, it never happens when you or others just resort to name calling or accusations without any reasons behind them.

Quote:

Let's get down to concretes. If a lesbian or a gay man asked you "How can I live a virtuous life?" what would you answer? Other than prayer, rituals, accepting this or that as something or other, and attending church and such, what is the virtuous path? I mean, if a serial killer asked you the same question, you'd certainly advise him not to kill anyone, right? Because I don't think you can call him virtuous if he accepts Jesus, prays every minute of the day and sets up camp in church, but also kills someone every week, confesses this to a priest, repents about it, and asks God to forgive him.

Here's your chance. I'm listening.

I would just like to reiterate some of the things you already mentioned. Prayer and living a sacramental life (Mass and Confession in particular) are indeed essential. The other essential aspect of living a virtuous life is being part of a community that is supportive and loving. I find that joining any number of the ministries at Church can be a great way to help people and make new friends. Virtue depends on being a person for others who is willing to serve and care for those who need our help. Every Church I have been part of has a few programs for the homeless, the elderly, visitations to the sick, or prisoners. Getting involved in one of these groups would be also essential to living a virtuous life. Maybe the person has a love for children, then I would suggest teaching Religious Education or helping out with youth group. Finally and very importantly I would tell the person about a very helpful apostolate of the Catholic Church called Courage. Here is a link to there website: Courage If you have other questions about the Church's teaching on homosexuality I would suggest you go there first as they have numerous resources and information much better than I could give.