Was Jesus God?

Quote: boymimbo

Natural is an adjective subject to interpretation. For most non-primates, sex is for procreation and not for pleasure. For upper primates and humans, sex of course is recreational and an act of pleasure.

It's very hard to make comparisons, because 1) unlike most mammals humans lack a mating season and/or a means to indicate fertility and 2) humans are not animals except in the strictly biological sense.

As for 2), if we define "natural" as in "other animals do it," then wave good bye to houses, crops, cattle, religion, philosophy, weapons, tools, etc.

Quote: AZDuffman

Even within tribes, children got both male and female inputs.

However, lots of species develop all their necessary traits completely separated from father figures and only under influence of a mother. All the necessary material was already imputed at birth.

Not saying humans can do it, but it is certainly going too far to say it has to be one way.

Quote: rxwine

However, lots of species develop all their necessary traits completely separated from father figures and only under influence of a mother. All the necessary material was already imputed at birth.

Not saying humans can do it, but it is certainly going too far to say it has to be one way.

Other species are not as socially complex as humans. Other species have natural instinct to guide them and that is enough. Humans have to be educated to survive, no animal is as helpless as a human child for near as long as a human child. The links between boys without father figures and crime/poverty are not something one can dispute.

Quote: AZDuffman

The links between boys without father figures and crime/poverty are not something one can dispute.

Kind of hard to discuss crime and poverty. It's not really a concept with other species. Egg stealing, or snatching some other animal's kill is just part of their regular system. Hard times or poverty, is when the environment is not ideal. I suppose like no work for humans would be.

Some animals have adaptions which would be considered unacceptable.

If animals adapt to these different things, it just another mode of survival, not crime or poverty as it would be when humans are part of it. If you're a starving animal and you can kill and take your neighbor's food or even eat your neighbor, that's just normal activity.

Quote: rxwine

Kind of hard to discuss crime and poverty. It's not really a concept with other species. Egg stealing, or snatching some other animal's kill is just part of their regular system. Hard times or poverty, is when the environment is not ideal. I suppose like no work for humans would be.

Which is just one more reason that you cannot say because it is good for animals it is good for humans.

Quote: AZDuffman

Which is just one more reason that you cannot say because it is good for animals it is good for humans.

Well, I'm just saying humans have made up a lot of possible hooey about cultural norms using their big brain and too much free time.

Quote: AZDuffman

Who are you to dictate what is?

I have no idea what people do in
private, it's none of my business
or anybodies business.

Quote: AZDuffman

You seem to be making stuff up as you go because you have some kind of vendetta against religion in general and Catholics in particular.

What am I making up? And I have a huge
vendetta against the Church, look at their
awful past, they're a joke. The horrible things
they did (and continue to do) in the name of
some god is appalling. I was fairly neutral
until about 20 years ago. I got to know some
Wiccan people and learned a lot about how
the Church persecuted and prosecuted these
people out of pure ignorance and superstition.

I have zero respect for the Church, it's a sham
and a scam.

Quote: rxwine

Well, I'm just saying humans have made up a lot of possible hooey about cultural norms using their big brain and too much free time.

Look at who is in prison and who is living in poverty. Then look at who lives in the nice part of town. Then check how each was raised.

All I'm sayin.

Quote: Nareed

It's the same as saying "This group is inferior intellectually and emotionally, but we shouldn't mistreat them." Then you put them in chains and work them to death. And if not to death, then without any possibility or hope for intellectual development or advancement.

It has absolutely nothing to do with any group being inferior to another. That is a foreign concept to me who believes very strongly that all human beings from conception till natural death are made in the image of God with a inviolable life of inestimable value. I admit the language is clumsy, "unnatural" has too much of a negative connotation as does "intrinsically disordered" which is the language the Catechism uses. The simple point is that our bodies were not made to have sex with members of our own gender. That is where the unnatural or disordered language comes from, but it carries with it no pejorative or special case that makes it worse than any other disordered tendency we have for example fornication, greed, power, or towards violence. As boymimbo points out we are all disordered and we need God to help us become ordered, or virtuous again and that goes for heterosexuals as well as homosexuals and anyone.

Quote: FrGamble

The simple point is that our bodies were not made to have sex with members of our own gender.

Really? Those parts certainly fit awfully well
into those other parts of the anatomy and
sure feel good while they're there. Doesn't
feel unnatural at all when it's happening.

I've never had sex with a man, but that kind
of sex with a woman uses the same orifices.
Men pay for sex like that, not because it's
unnatural, but because it IS natural and
feels so damn good.

That's what the Church has always abhorred,
that sex feels so good it must be wrong. It
must be evil.