Original Sin?

November 25th, 2019 at 10:01:23 AM permalink
FrGamble
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 67
Posts: 7596
Nothing to worry about in regards to a religious fight in regards to space-time and these other things. It is such exciting and speculative stuff that is more theoretical than anything. It is interesting to talk about but none of it does or can reach any conclusions about God's existence.
“It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” (
November 25th, 2019 at 10:51:13 AM permalink
Evenbob
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 146
Posts: 25010
Quote: FrGamble
He spends the majority of the time talking about how the singularity theory makes sense and then kind of abruptly says it is wrong.


Not at all. He says at the very start
it's wrong, and then explains it. He
then details why it's wrong.

Quote:
do you think causality can go infinitely back without a first cause?


In a universe that's been here
forever and is infinite, no problem.
Terrible news for your wandering
bedouin god, oh well.

Quote:
but none of it does or can reach any conclusions about God's existence.


But how could it, there is no god.
If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.
November 25th, 2019 at 12:27:34 PM permalink
FrGamble
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 67
Posts: 7596
Quote: Evenbob
Not at all. He says at the very start
it's wrong, and then explains it. He
then details why it's wrong.


I don't think he explains why it is wrong. He gives a whole list of other ideas, did you think anyone of them was more convincing than the others?



Quote:
In a universe that's been here
forever and is infinite, no problem.


An infinite regress of causality is a big problem no matter what.



Quote:
But how could it, there is no god.


You've said this a lot, I think I know what you believe. This doesn't make it true however and you can't just keep parroting what you believe as a reason for your conclusions about God's existence. Try some reasoning beyond just your own feelings, evidence, intuitions, or thoughts.
“It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” (
November 25th, 2019 at 12:37:25 PM permalink
Dalex64
Member since: Mar 8, 2014
Threads: 3
Posts: 3687
Quote: FrGamble
You've said this a lot, I think I know what you believe. This doesn't make it true however and you can't just keep parroting what you believe as a reason for your conclusions about God's existence. Try some reasoning beyond just your own feelings, evidence, intuitions, or thoughts.


Look in the mirror and say those words to yourself, slowly.
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts." Daniel Patrick Moynihan
November 25th, 2019 at 1:29:22 PM permalink
FrGamble
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 67
Posts: 7596
Do you really think I sound like that? I'm sorry if I do. I always try to give reasons to support my believe in God and not just say I believe because I believe.
“It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” (
November 25th, 2019 at 1:39:24 PM permalink
Evenbob
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 146
Posts: 25010
Quote: FrGamble

An infinite regress of causality


Catholics are really hung up on that.
I see it all the time on Catholic
sites. It's like they've been taught
this is an inarguable position, and
it's so not what they think it is.


Quote:
Try some reasoning .


But all your reasoning since 2014
on this forum has been faulty.
You won't find god with reasoning,
how pathetic a god would be if
that's the only way to find him.
One persons reasoning is another
persons belly laugh, to paraphrase
Heinlein. Here are some more:

Men rarely (if ever) manage to dream up a god superior to themselves. Most Gods have the manners and morals of a spoiled child.
[Robert Heinlein, "Notebooks of Lazarus Long," from Time Enough for Love (1973).]

The most preposterous notion that H. Sapiens has ever dreamed up is that the Lord God of Creation, Shaper and Ruler of all the Universes, wants the saccharine adoration of His creatures, can be swayed by their prayers, and becomes petulant if He does not receive this flattery. Yet this absurd fantasy, without a shred of evidence to bolster it, pays all the expenses of the oldest, largest, and least productive industry in all of history.
[Robert Heinlein, "Notebooks of Lazarus Long," from Time Enough for Love (1973).]

One man's theology is another man's belly laugh.

Anyone who can worship a trinity and insist that his religion is a monotheism can believe anything... just give him time to rationalize it.
[Robert A. Heinlein, JOB: A Comedy of Justice, (1984).]
If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.
November 25th, 2019 at 1:49:05 PM permalink
petroglyph
Member since: Aug 3, 2014
Threads: 25
Posts: 6227
Quote: FrGamble
Nothing to worry about in regards to a religious fight in regards to space-time and these other things. It is such exciting and speculative stuff that is more theoretical than anything.
Much less speculative and theoretical than a guy walking on water, coming back from being dead and then performing other magic. At least when science comes to a conclusion about existence it is repeatable.

Quote:
It is interesting to talk about but none of it does or can reach any conclusions about God's existence.
He's not trying to come to any conclusions about god. Just trying to find the origins of this universe. The problem arises when religion feels threatened.
The last official act of any government is to loot the treasury. GW
November 25th, 2019 at 1:55:21 PM permalink
FrGamble
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 67
Posts: 7596
Quote: petroglyph
Much less speculative and theoretical than a guy walking on water, coming back from being dead and then performing other magic. At least when science comes to a conclusion about existence it is repeatable.


You are correct, Jesus Christ is not theoretical but a real person who has changed history in an unimaginable way and He is unrepeatable.

Quote:
He's not trying to come to any conclusions about god. Just trying to find the origins of this universe. The problem arises when religion feels threatened.


I agree totally.
“It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” (
November 25th, 2019 at 2:20:04 PM permalink
petroglyph
Member since: Aug 3, 2014
Threads: 25
Posts: 6227
Quote: Dalex64
"It's not a completely crazy possibility"

I almost said this to an earlier response and didn't, but I will say it now: Google is your friend.

https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/article/are-the-laws-of-physics-really-universal/

If you want to know if any scientist believes this or that, look it up.

The "unbreakable laws of physics" have been defined by our understanding of the universe. Every single one of them. You need to be open to the possibility that we are wrong, or will learn something new.

The earlier "Google is your friend" moment was regarding the shape and finiteness of the universe. It is an area of active study, because scientists haven't made up their mind and/or want to verify what they believe with evidence.
"As far as we can tell, the universe seems to be playing fair"

NOVA is great programming.
The last official act of any government is to loot the treasury. GW
November 25th, 2019 at 2:39:16 PM permalink
terapined
Member since: Aug 6, 2014
Threads: 73
Posts: 11786
Quote: petroglyph

NOVA is great programming.

Totally agree with you
Love NOVA on PBS
Zerohedge could never change my mind. I have no respect
Nova can change my mind, lots of respect
Sometimes we live no particular way but our own - Grateful Dead "Eyes of the World"