Original Sin?

Quote: Evenbob

The fact that you think we swallow this
garbage is hilarious. You 'researched'
it and found Jesus really did walk on
water and pull food out of thin air?
Really?

Stay on target, Luke. You are talking about faith, I am talking about public policy. Whether or not Jesus walked on water would not be a good basis of some type of maritime law.

Quote: FrGamble

That is a great story, it is going to make its way into a homily at some point.

I thought it was too generous for the community leaders to give Jehovah a vote, given he had not been part of their deliberations and likely isn't formally a part of their community. Not to mention the way he chose to express his views is savage and uncivilized, but very much in character.

I like the story because it shows the ridiculousness of religious leaders and even God trying to force themselves on us over and against our reason and freedom.

Quote: FrGamble

Let's bring consistency and accuracy as well. Marriage is not specifically a Christian thing. Marriage is a natural thing that far predates Christ.

That's rather really good to hear. therefore, when it comes to civil marriage law, kindly SHUT UP unless such laws are unfair to the way your cult deals with marriage.

Quote:

I swear to you that I do not, nor does the Church, want to impose any law on you or anyone based solely upon what God thinks or what Catholics believe. I am only interested, as should we all, with creating and supporting laws that support the common good based on reason, research, and a philosophy that views every human being at any stage of life or any state of life as infinitely valuable.

Uh-huh. Would you favor a law criminalizing the use of the pill, diaphragms, hormone shots, IUDs, condoms, etc?

Pope Francis at St. Peter’s: Warns Against Christmas as ‘Holiday with Ourselves at Center, Rather than Jesus’

Well duh.. I never hear anybody talking
about Jesus at Xmas, not even Christians.
In all the family Xmas get together's I've
gone to given by my wife's Xtion relatives,
I've never heard Jesus mentioned once.

It's all about presents and food and games.
Even Xtions don't care that this is Jesus' bday,
they want the commercial part of it.

Christmas is all about Christ. It begins with Mass - all about Him - then we give each other gifts in honor of Him, and then we have a big meal with a beautiful grace proclaiming our love and joy we feel for Christ. Please stop letting your personal experiences generalize for everyone. You are wrong, yet again.

Quote: FrGamble

Christmas is all about Christ.

For most it's about everything but Jesus.
That's undeniable.

I deny it completely as the last of our Masses was as full as the three simultenous Masses we had at Saturday afternoon.

Quote: Evenbob

For most it's about everything but Jesus.
That's undeniable.

Well, wrong yet again, Bob--I'm denying it.

For many people, Christmas IS a religious holiday. You do realize that the very word, Christmas, contains an alternate of Jesus's name, don't you? Well, maybe you don't.

I'm bemused by the fact that you are such a rabid supporter of Republicanism and you say that conservative opinions are the only ones that matter; yet, most conservatives are fervidly religious. So for "most," Christmas would be very much about the birth of Jesus.

You may be an atheist, and in point of fact, so am I. But most people in this country are, in fact, believers (as shown by polls time and time again), so for a substantial percentage of the country, again, Christmas IS a religious holiday. It may have secular overtones, but many people--EVEN YOUR HERO, TRUMP!!!!!--attend Christmas mass, for example.

Quote: FrGamble

Christmas is all about Christ. It begins with Mass - all about Him - then we give each other gifts in honor of Him, and then we have a big meal with a beautiful grace proclaiming our love and joy we feel for Christ. Please stop letting your personal experiences generalize for everyone. You are wrong, yet again.

What "we" do depends on how you define "we." For some, Christmas is all about celebrating the birth of Jesus legend. For others, it's about getting together with family and exchanging gifts. For others, it's about eating turkey and watching football. None of those views is more valid than another and some are in fact held simultaneously.

That Jesus existed is a fairly certain historical fact. The actual story of his birth is a beautiful fable, as is the mythology surrounding his death and "resurrection" (notably, the former was witnessed and recorded; the latter wasn't). We celebrate Christmas on the particular day that we do because the Christian Church wanted to replace pagan solstice celebrations with something equally fun. It's extremely unlikely that the Empire-wide Roman census and tax levy (the supposed reason for Jesus' parents to have traveled to Bethlehem, even though Mary was pregnant) would have been done at the beginning of winter. No one actually knows when, or even where, Jesus was born.

You and Bob are in an interesting position, in that you are diametrically opposed in your views but also both wrong. The truth is somewhere in the middle---for some, Christmas is an intensely religious holiday; for others, it is a secular celebration; for others, it has overtones of both. You both are making the assumption that your particular views of the holiday are the only correct ones.