Original Sin?

Quote: FrGamble

Christmas is all about Christ. It begins with Mass - all about Him - then we give each other gifts in honor of Him, and then we have a big meal with a beautiful grace proclaiming our love and joy we feel for Christ. Please stop letting your personal experiences generalize for everyone. You are wrong, yet again.

Ha, you are right my liberal friend. I do exactly what I accuse EvenBob of doing. Doh! Sometimes he makes me so flabbergasted I just write without thinking.

Quote: FrGamble

Sometimes he makes me so flabbergasted I just write without thinking.

I live in your head rent free.

Quote: FrGamble

Notice he begins everything with the false statement that there is no God, the rest is just a circular argument. .

It is a circular argument. The more
you look for god, the more evidence
you try to find, the longer you try
and prove gods existence, the
more you'll run round and round
in a circle, chasing your own tail.
It can never lead to anything because
there is nothing to find. You end
up where you started every time.

Just start with an honest look at existence all around us. This is enough for a thinking person using logic alone to acknowledge there must be a creator. See how this works? Don't start with the premise that there is a God or there is not a God. Just look at the evidence all around you and ask the big and important questions and you will come to the right conclusion, I'm confident of it.

Quote: FrGamble

Just look at the evidence all around you

I see evidence of constant and never
ending evolution. No evidence of
a creator anywhere. Nor can you
point to any. If science could prove
there was a creator, it would have
done so by now. Maybe your creator
is hiding, maybe he's a tricky chap.
He's only appeared to a chosen
few. You should cherish that, lucky
you.

Science cannot prove there is a creator it can only point to Him, which it does. Logic can prove to you there is a creator if you care to listen.

Quote: FrGamble

Science cannot prove there is a creator it can only point to Him, which it does.

No it doesn't, and you can't show
where it does. In your mind it does,
but in reality it doesn't. God people
think they see a connection to god
in everything, because that's what
they want to see.

If you approach it with a clear mind
and no agenda except to see the truth,
you will see no evidence of god to
point to. That's why so many scientists
are atheists, they see the world for
what it is, and not they way they want
it to be.

But because you were indoctrinated at
an early age by the lies of the Church,
you are now trapped by them. You
cannot see the forest for the trees,
literally. And you probably never will.

Quote: FrGamble

Science cannot prove there is a creator it can only point to Him, which it does. Logic can prove to you there is a creator if you care to listen.

We have a truce, but don't expect me to defend your position:

http://cosmos.nautil.us/short/119/fine-tuning-does-not-imply-a-fine-tuner

I'm not so much talking about the fine tuning of our universe, but more that it had a beginning. I think science is also very clear that the material universe cannot be eternal without breaking the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics. Of course if the universe is created then it breaks the 1st law, what can you do? Anyway it is abundantly clear that anyone can say that science disproves God's existence and I believe a reasonable person will recognize that science points one to the possibility of God. There is nothing in fact that I know of which would actually be considered evidence or a reasonable argument that there is no God, but we have all gone done this road before.

Quote: FrGamble

I think science is also very clear that the material universe cannot be eternal without breaking the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics.

Wow, you amaze me. You really don't remember
that we discussed this to death over a long period
of time. You throw it out there like it's a revelation
here. You have a series of Vatican talking points
memorized and you draw them out of your holster
like you would a gun. Why on earth would we want
to address this point again when we ran it into the
ground so many times already.