Original Sin?

Quote: FrGamble

What happens when you do something against the will God? You are unhappy and unfulfilled. This is sin.

NO! People are often thrilled when they sin,
that's why they keep doing it. Gossiping is
a sin, yet Christians do it every day. Masturbation
is a sin, yet they enjoy the crap out of it.
Disobeying parents, cheating on a spouse,
lusting after a woman in an office. For many
people doing these things makes them happy,
not unhappy and unfulfilled.

Sin is very specific. Like breaking a traffic law. A
cop can't write you a ticket for being unhappy,
but he sure can punish you for going too fast.

As Buddha and Jesus would say; you are mistaking fleeting pleasures for true happiness. It's like eating fast food, yes it tastes good on the lips, but it leads to a lifetime in hell. However, you don't have to wait until you die to experience the hell of those sins just wait until you are addicted to porn, you are known as a gossiper, your disobedience leads to a criminal record or losing the trust of parents or hurts your relationship with siblings, get caught cheating - all these things lead to unhappiness. Sin will always lead to that eventually and even permanently.

Quote: FrGamble

However, you don't have to wait until you die to experience the hell of those sins just wait until you are addicted to porn,.

But most people don't get addicted to porn
or drugs, or get caught cheating, or stealing
from their employer. Most people get away
with the small crimes they commit. Even most
drunk drivers only get caught once out of
every 40 times they drive drunk. That's why
hell and sin were invented, the self righteous
couldn't stand that most people got away
with acting how they wanted, there was no
earthly punishment. So they invented one
for after you die.

Danger, Danger, Will Robinson! Be careful here Bob it almost sounds like you are arguing that things like drunk driving are okay unless you get caught. Do whatever makes you happy including cheat on your wife and there is a good chance you won't get caught. Is that what you are saying? Is drunk driving wrong even if you don't get pulled over?

Quote: FrGamble

Danger, Danger, Will Robinson! Be careful here Bob it almost sounds like you are arguing that things like drunk driving are okay unless you get caught.

You know exactly what I'm saying. Most people
who do bad things keep doing it because they
know they can. Do you know that 95% of things
like burglaries and shoplifting never get solved?
Even 33% of murders are never solved. People
who get out of prison typically go back to a life
of crime because it pays so well.

Most people who commit what you call sins don't
lead miserable lives at all. I'll say it again. It's always
been this way, and it drove the self righteous
insane that there was no punishment from god
in this lifetime. So they invented sin and hell. It
slowed people down a little, but at least they
felt bad when they stole their neighbors chicken
and had sex with his wife.

I think it was you yourself who said that criminals live miserable existences because of what they do.

However, what you are saying now is just plain awful but in a strange way helpful for my argument about sin and religion.

You seem to think that the idea of punishment after death was made up to, as you say kind of slow down people in their wickedness. What would have happened if the Church didn't do that? Are people so sinful in your mind that there would be no check or obstacle for them just going around killing and stealing and sleeping with anyone they wanted to? I mean I believe in Original Sin, but I also believe that human beings are made good and in the image and likeness of God. We are weakened by Original Sin, but we are not raving lunatics. You seem to believe in the sinful nature of mankind much stronger than I do.

Quote: FrGamble

What would have happened if the Church didn't do that?

Ever hear of China or Japan or India? Their
religions have no concept of sin and they
seem to have done just fine. In fact they've
doing better than fine, nobody has ever
been killed in the name of Buddha, or
Hinduism, or Shintoism. Only the really
holy religions do that, Christianity and
Islam, both based on the blood soaked
Bible and egoism.

Quote: Evenbob

nobody has ever
been killed in the name of Buddha, or
Hinduism, or Shintoism.

I am shocked you would say this. I will let you research the sorrowing history of violence that has plagued Buddhists and Hindus. Here we are not talking about ancient history but modern day violence, persecution, forced conversions, and killings taking place at the hands of Buddhists and Hindus towards each other, Jews, Christians, and Muslims.

Quote: FrGamble

I am shocked you would say this.

You're not reading what I wrote. Armies of
Buddhists and Hindu's have never been
sent out to kill in the name of their religion.
To kill people because they weren't Buddhists
or Hindu's.

You said:

Quote: Evenbob

nobody has ever
been killed in the name of Buddha, or
Hinduism, or Shintoism.

That is just plain wrong. It is still going on today and no one seems to care.

I assume you are trying to say that armies of Christians went out to kill people because they weren't Christians. If this is your conception of why we had the crusades you are incorrect. Do you know how or why the crusades got started?