Original Sin?

Quote: Nareed

If this sorry, pell-mell agglomeration of primitive superstitions and really bad ideas is real (HA!), he should be begging us for forgiveness.

Primitive superstitions is key here. I've heard
non religious Bible scholars say it's a miracle
any religion was spawned from the Bible, it's
such a mess of contradictions and superstition.
NT included. What they do is pick what they
want and ignore the rest and call it their religion.
The Bible can say anything you want it to say.

Quote: Evenbob

The Bible can say anything you want it to say.

Not if you have a Church established by Christ with the promise of the Holy Spirit to guide the interpretation of the Bible in truth.

Quote: FrGamble

Not if you have a Church established by Christ with the promise of the Holy Spirit to guide the interpretation of the Bible in truth.

And where does it say that? In the Bible!
You use the Bible to prove the Bible is true. And the
best part is, it makes perfect sense to you. It's wouldn't
with absolutely anything else, it's the polar opposite
of scientific method, but that's OK because:

Calm down Bob, I think we have shown over and over again that you are the only one using circular logic: God does not exist because God can't exist.

What I am claiming is that the authority to interpret Scripture is given to the Church. It is right there in Scripture itself. This is not circular reasoning any more than a document like the Constitution is when it claims that the proper interpretation of it resides in the Supreme Court.

Quote: FrGamble

God does not exist because God can't exist.
.

There is no evidence for the existence of god,
and until there is, he doesn't exist. You can
pretend he does, act like he does, pray to
him, worship him. That doesn't mean he's
real, it means you're deluded. Never under
estimate the power of self delusion.

Quote: Evenbob

Primitive superstitions is key here. I've heard
non religious Bible scholars say it's a miracle
any religion was spawned from the Bible, it's
such a mess of contradictions and superstition.
NT included. What they do is pick what they
want and ignore the rest and call it their religion.
The Bible can say anything you want it to say.

Not really a miracle. If you were non-religious and try to read the Bible just for history's sake, what you get is prophecies leading to historical truths. Isaiah, Daniel, etc predicted the coming of Christ and though their predictions are loose it came "true". The OT is really an accounting of history up to the end of the Bablylonian empire. I believe the books after Deuteronomy are legitimate historical accounts which can be cross-referenced to other sources.

The life of Paul the apostle who started the Christian church was able to do so due to the lax politics of the day, in that there was a Roman King who did not respect the authority of the Jews (who wanted him dead) and did not see religions as a threat to Caesar's reign. This allowed Paul to spread Christianity based on the birth, death, and Resurrection as the Son of God (which was witnessed by people who were alive at the time, fact or fiction you decide), plus the appealing promise of being able to live a more lax life (in sin) without as much of a strict moral law with the promise of salvation.

Quote: Evenbob

There is no evidence for the existence of god,
and until there is, he doesn't exist.

Besides the fact that your conclusion does not follow from the premise, your premise is wrong. There is evidence all around you. The existence of energy and matter is evidence of a creator.

That evidence is based on the premise that matter and energy had to have a creator, and even moreso that the creator was specifically god.

What if I said there was a creator, but it wasn't your god? What if your god wasn't born more than 5000 years, or 2015 years ago?

There is certainly nothing in the "look all around you" evidence that supports monotheism, or the timeline of existance of any one, more, or all gods.

Quote: Dalex64

That evidence is based on the premise that matter and energy had to have a creator, and even moreso that the creator was specifically god.

And that the creator did NOT require a creator, which is a prima facie logical contradiction. That is:

All that exists requires a creator
The creator exists (let us assume)
The creator requires a creator.

But then the creator's creator requires a creator as well. As does the creator's creator's creator, and so on ad infinitum. This is Christian sophistry for "It's turtles all the way down!"

Yeah, apparently it is a logical contradiction for a universe to spring from nothing or to have existed eternally, but not so for a supreme being.