Original Sin?

May 6th, 2015 at 8:25:47 PM permalink
FrGamble
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 67
Posts: 7596
Quote: Evenbob
You think
some oppression and ridicule for a
short 12 years really made people
forget god and Jesus? What a weak
religion it is if that was the case.


It has nothing to do with the religion but those practicing it. Those who didn't forget or fold we call them martyrs, you can find their names and stories in Dachau and throughout the government prisons and torture camps of atheistic governments.


Quote:
I'm totally confused now. You mean like eating a
whole chocolate cake when we know we shouldn't?
I don't care, eat the cake if you want. Or don't. I'm
not understanding the question.


Well that is gluttony and it could be an example. We know that we shouldn't eat junk food and we also know that if we ate healthy food we would feel better, why then do we eat whole chocolate cakes? Why do we struggle to not eat those things we know we should avoid?

Just to add a little weight to the sin we could take adultery. We know we should be faithful to our spouse and we know that this is what is best for you, your spouse, your family, and the same people for the other party, yet so many struggle to be faithful. Why is that? It would seem that if something is good for us and others it would be easy to do and we would gravitate towards it naturally, instead we seem to be inordinately called to do what we know is wrong - the question is why is that?
“It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” (
May 6th, 2015 at 8:32:09 PM permalink
Evenbob
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 146
Posts: 25010
Quote: FrGamble
Just to add a little weight to the sin we could take adultery. We know we should be faithful to our spouse and we know that this is what is best for you, your spouse, your family, and the same people for the other party, yet so many struggle to be faithful. Why is that?


You're asking why do people cheat when
they know they shouldn't? There are only,
I don't know, about a thousand possible reasons.
It would have to be on a case to case basis,
one size does not fit all.
If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.
May 6th, 2015 at 9:04:41 PM permalink
FrGamble
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 67
Posts: 7596
Not really what we are trying to answer. Why is it that people often find it difficult to do what they know they should do? Virtue often takes hard work and effort when logic would say that it should be easy to do what is right and hard to do what is wrong. Yet the exact opposite seems to be the case in human beings. Why is that?
“It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” (
May 7th, 2015 at 12:04:50 AM permalink
Evenbob
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 146
Posts: 25010
Quote: FrGamble
logic would say that it should be easy to do what is right and hard to do what is wrong.


Logic says it's hard to do what is right?
Since when. It's very easy to do what
is right most of the time, you just do
it and don't think about it. I do what
is right most of the day, it's a habit.

Why, do you have a problem doing
what's right? That's pretty odd for a
priest..
If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.
May 7th, 2015 at 12:11:02 AM permalink
Evenbob
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 146
Posts: 25010
Quote: FrGamble
Why is it that people often find it difficult to do what they know they should do? Virtue often takes hard work and effort when logic would say that it should be easy to do what is right and hard to do what is wrong.


What people find it difficult, what do you
mean. Logic is correct, it's easy to do what's
right. I do it all day long, it's habit.
Doing wrong takes work, it takes
deviating from the norm. So yes,
doing right is easy, what's your
point. Do you have a point.
If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.
May 7th, 2015 at 9:23:08 AM permalink
FrGamble
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 67
Posts: 7596
My point might be lost on one as virtuous as you. It sounds like you have formed strong habits of goodness so that you always do what is right without thinking about it. However, if you look out your window at the world around you I think you can see plenty of evidence that doing what we know is right is not as easy as you make it look. There is lots of lying, cheating, hurting going on. If doing the right thing was as easy as you seem to think it is how do you explain the obvious brokenness and bad behavior in our world?
“It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” (
May 7th, 2015 at 11:58:32 AM permalink
Evenbob
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 146
Posts: 25010
Quote: FrGamble
If doing the right thing was as easy as you seem to think it is how do you explain the obvious brokenness and bad behavior in our world?


It's only obvious to you. All I see when I'm
in public is people being 99% polite to
each other. In the store, the casino, the
gas station, the barber shop, the hardware,
the library, all the places I go. Once in a
while somebody will be rude in traffic,
but it's not the norm. If you have such a
negative view of the world, maybe it's
you that has the problem.

Saw two documentaries of two guys who went
round the world on cycles, and from Scotland
to Capetown S Africa. Each journey took 3
months. They ran into local people every day,
from every walk of life. Every one of them was
as friendly as can be, smiling and hospitable.
Not once did they encounter even somebody
in a bad mood, let alone violence.

Yes there is selfish violence in the world, but
it's hardly the norm. For the most part, people
aren't 'broken' at all, quite the opposite. They
get along and act civilized automatically, just
like I do. And I hate that word 'broken' to describe
people. We aren't cars, we don't break. We're
born with all we need to get along in the world,
just like all animals are. Quit inventing problems
where none exist. If people have something wrong,
it's something they did to themselves, not the world.
If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.
May 7th, 2015 at 2:00:21 PM permalink
FrGamble
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 67
Posts: 7596
I find myself in the awkward position of trying to argue that humanity in general is worse than you think. First let me say that I am an optimistic person and I am surrounded all day by the nicest people you would ever want to meet. However, I have a view you might not have behind the curtain of all these polite niceties you are bamboozled by. If you could see in the hearts of the people you meet you would know that everyone is dealing with something. It is the fact that they are made in the image and likeness of God and that people in general want to be civil and nice so that they can get through their days which creates that veneer of politeness throughout society that you notice. That nice gas attendant is dealing with divorce in her family, the kind card dealer is struggling with a drug addiction, your barber is lying on his taxes and can't forgive someone who hurt him 20 years ago, the guy who lets you into traffic is still haunted by beating someone to a pulp when he was a kid. People want to be good and are happy to be kind, but don't mistake that simple niceness for perfection in their lives. Go a little deeper and you will discover that behind the smiles and hospitality is pain and struggle.

I hope you understand what I am saying here. People are not all bad, in fact the idea of Original Sin is that people are mainly good and desire to be better but they are weak and wounded by the reality of sin. What you describe as the niceness people are quick to show is really evidence of Original Sin, especially when you get to know these people and they are willing to share their hurt and regrettable mistakes with you. We are so very good and wonderful and at the same time so very wounded and weak. This is the reality of being a human being.
“It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” (
May 7th, 2015 at 2:35:21 PM permalink
Evenbob
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 146
Posts: 25010
Quote: FrGamble
I hope you understand what I am saying here. .


Oh, I understand completely, even if you do
not. You are first and foremost a salesman,
you are selling sin. The thing people need
to be saved from. So it's your job to paint
everything in the bleakest way possible. Just
like the door to door roofing salesman has
to tell you your roof is about gone, better hurry,
he got there just in time.

If you and the roofing guy told the truth, you
would never get any sales. He gets money, you
get converts. You will now scream and yell and
tell me I'm oh so full of crap. But I know you
religious types, you gloom and doom sellers,
been dealing with them all my life. What the
heck good is a savior if there's nothing to save
you from. Better hurry, your MORTAL SOUL is at
stake!

No it's not, that's impossible. Sin and god only
exist in your sales guide talking points.
If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.
May 7th, 2015 at 7:12:53 PM permalink
FrGamble
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 67
Posts: 7596
A good and effective doge of the question. You know sometimes the roof salesman is right and you need a new roof.
“It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” (