Original Sin?

Quote: Evenbob

How can you even define it at all.
It's never the same. The love I feel
for my dog isn't the same as what
I feel for my wife, nor is it the same
as anybody elses.

So if you can't define love, why are you so worried about defining sin, or claiming that once it is defined that it isn't real as long as you don't bieve in it?

Quote: Dalex64

So if you can't define love, why are you so worried about defining sin, or claiming that once it is defined that it isn't real as long as you don't bieve in it?

Where did I say I was worried about it?
Sin and love are both concepts, they
don't exist outside of our minds.
If a guy is madly in love and walking
down the street, it means nothing to
me. I can't see it or hear it or touch
it or feel it. It exists only to him, in
his head.

The same with sin. It's a made up word
to describe offending a made up god.
Outside of that, it has no reality outside
of a persons head.

Quote: Evenbob

How so? I was taught that struggle to be
who you want was rewarding, that it's
the only way achieve your goal. Nothing
worthwhile is given to us, we have to
struggle to get it.

See you aren't wrong 100% of the time. This is true. The question you need to ask yourself now is why is becoming who you want is a struggle? The answer is sin.

Quote: FrGamble

The question you need to ask yourself now is why is becoming who you want is a struggle? The answer is sin.

What? The answer is, it's not sin. It's because
you're born not knowing everything, and
learning is always a struggle. Anything worth
achieving is worth the sweat and tears you
put into it. Sin has nothing to do with any
of it.

Sin was invented to keep people in line, to
produce guilt in them. Offending god, how
can you ever get over doing that. You can't.
So the Church invented a way, just go to
them and everything would be OK. Confess
you sins, get forgiven, go out and sin again.

It's a racket, just like getting comps when
you gamble. We're going to reward you for
acting irresponsibly. We forgive you and
invite you back with a free room. Thank
you, lord. Amen..

Quote: Evenbob

It's because
you're born not knowing everything, and
learning is always a struggle. Anything worth
achieving is worth the sweat and tears you
put into it.

Why is learning and achieving a struggle. You would think that if it is really good for you and you want it then it would be easy and fun. What is the obstacle or problem that causes something that we all know we should pursue and desire such as learning, achievement, being a better person, etc. to be so difficult?

Quote: FrGamble

Why is learning and achieving a struggle.

You actually think I'm going to answer
this, knowing you have some god
related answer of your own that makes
no sense to anybody but you? This is
such an easy question, we both know
it's a trick so you can go on and on
about the nature 'god' gave us, or
some such thing. Don't you ever tire of
the dogma and rhetoric of the Church
hanging around your neck like a millstone?

Christians love to say their religion is about
setting you free, when it's really about
imprisoning you behind a wall of rules and
regulations and principles and dogma. How
many times have I read atheists say they
never knew what real freedom was till they
threw off the shackles of the Church.

Quote: Evenbob

You actually think I'm going to answer
this,

What I think is there is no other answer than they mystery of sin or whatever you want to call it. There is this strange reality that the things that are most beneficial to us, the things that make us and society better, are often difficult and at times if feels like we are fighting something in ourselves to do them. However, when we overcome this strange obstacle inside us and make the right and difficult choice we never feel better - like we are closer to being who we truly are. The things that hurt us, doom us, or make things worse are usually enjoyable and actually easy for us to fall into and afterwards leave us feeling empty and sad. This is evidence of Original Sin.

Quote:

How many times have I read atheists say they
never knew what real freedom was till they
threw off the shackles of the Church.

I too know the false freedom and fleeting joy of doing whatever I want without caring about what God, the Church, or anyone else has to say. This illusion of freedom will inevitably come crashing down upon and reveal itself as the most insidious type of chains, the invisible kind.

Quote: FrGamble

What I think is there is no other answer than they mystery of sin

And that's why I didn't answer, this would
have been your response no matter what
I said. It's the cults programmed response,
blame god for everything. Things that don't
exist, like sin, are not 'mysterious'. Made up
words for a imaginary things are not mysterious.

Quote:

I too know the false freedom and fleeting joy of doing whatever I want without caring about what God, the Church, or anyone else has to say. .

And you apparently couldn't handle it, so you
sought refuge in the world of strict rules and
regulations. You see this all the time in 12 step
programs, for whatever your vice is. They abuse
the freedom and pay the price, and then seek
out rules and regs and guidelines to live within.
Nothing wrong with that, you always have your
next life to get it right. And the one after that,
ad infinitum.. Forever and ever, world without end.

Quote: Evenbob

And that's why I didn't answer,

I'm going to take that as you do not have an answer. That's okay there really is no other answer than sin and since you won't allow yourself to go there because of some mental block I thought you would just avoid.


By the way if you pretend you don't need rules and guidelines in your life you are fooling yourself and those invisible shackles have you very tightly wrapped up.

Quote: FrGamble

I'm going to take that as you do not have an answer. That's okay there really is no other answer than sin

Of course I have an answer, but why waste
time typing it, you will just say it's wrong
because the real answer is 'sin'. Whatever
that is.

Quote:

By the way if you pretend you don't need rules and guidelines in your life you are fooling yourself and those invisible shackles have you very tightly wrapped up.

What are these invisible shackles? I have no
idea what you mean.