Simple question?

Quote: FrGamble

OMG again! My faith came from questioning God! Questions are how you learn things and no question is off the table.

The words of the church, from the vatican website that I have linked to several times:

Quote:

There are various ways of sinning against faith: Voluntary doubt about the faith disregards or refuses to hold as true what God has revealed and the Church proposes for belief.
...
Incredulity is the neglect of revealed truth or the willful refusal to assent to it. "Heresy is the obstinate post-baptismal denial of some truth which must be believed with divine and catholic faith, or it is likewise an obstinate doubt concerning the same;

What is a question if not to doubt? Why question if you can not disagree? Why MUST something be believed?

It sounds like you can ask questions, but only if you come up with the right answer. To doubt, and believe otherwise, can be heresy or worse (I didn't copy the "or worse" parts)

Quote: FrGamble

Are you saying we are both absolutely right?

Absolutely not.

Quote:

"God has consigned all men to disobedience, that he may have mercy upon all" (Rom 11:32).

Maybe that doesn't say what I think it says.

Quote: Dalex64

Maybe that doesn't say what I think it says.

I'm sure it was meant as a joke. The Bible
is full of hilarity like that.

Quote: Evenbob

Absolutely not.

:) I'm glad you get it.

Quote: Dalex64

What is a question if not to doubt? Why question if you can not disagree? Why MUST something be believed?

It sounds like you can ask questions, but only if you come up with the right answer. To doubt, and believe otherwise, can be heresy or worse (I didn't copy the "or worse" parts)

I think that to sin against the faith you must first hold the faith. Cardinal Newman once said that "10,000 difficulties does not equal one doubt." I believe that the Church Christ established does have the right answer(s) through the inspiration of the Holy Spirit and the Magisterium both ordinary and extraordinary. I may still have difficulties, which means I don't understand something or I have some impediment to fully grasping it, but I'm not foolish enough to think that somehow I know better than thousands of years of much holier and smarter men and women, many saints, who have gone before me. As a Catholic I believe everything that the Church teaches to be revealed, but it does not mean I don't have difficulties with some things. I don't have voluntary doubt and I certainly do not deny anything that the Church teaches but this does NOT mean I should not question, I am encouraged to question - how else will I resolve those difficulties and grow in knowledge?

Quote: FrGamble

I think that to sin against the faith you must first hold the faith. Cardinal Newman once said that "10,000 difficulties does not equal one doubt." I believe that the Church Christ established does have the right answer(s) through the inspiration of the Holy Spirit and the Magisterium both ordinary and extraordinary. I may still have difficulties, which means I don't understand something or I have some impediment to fully grasping it, but I'm not foolish enough to think that somehow I know better than thousands of years of much holier and smarter men and women, many saints, who have gone before me. As a Catholic I believe everything that the Church teaches to be revealed, but it does not mean I don't have difficulties with some things. I don't have voluntary doubt and I certainly do not deny anything that the Church teaches but this does NOT mean I should not question, I am encouraged to question - how else will I resolve those difficulties and grow in knowledge?

Actually, though perhaps you have many of these discussions in Seminary and among yourselves, I'm sort of surprised you haven't enlisted some of the Brethren to come join the fun on this board. The collective intelligence in these discussions is prodigious, the concepts challenging, the arguments coherent and compelling. Are we your secret garden?

Not that you don't hold your own. But these ideas are so central to your calling I would think it would be of interest to some of the others as well.

I've often been tempted to bring in some support to help me and have often prayed this would happen organically. I guess that is where I fall on this question. People have come here naturally from either the WoV site or just in finding this forum on their own. I sometimes talk about our debates with my friends, both in the priesthood and without, and have given them the information. Maybe they are reading these things and just decided not to weigh in or they never really looked into it. I am kind of hooked and I feel like I kind of know some of the people here. That is part of the reason I am so involved. It takes some time and it is sometimes difficult so maybe some decided they might be doing something else on other sites. One site I know some of my friends spend time is called, "Strange Notions" it is specifically about theological and philosophical issues surrounding faith, religion, and atheism. This leads me to another issue. I really like that this site is wide ranging from Face's awesome stories, Clue games, Wizard's adventures, and faith issues. Some of my friends might prefer a site more focused on just faith issues.

Quote: FrGamble

:) I'm glad you get it.

Geez, I got it before you thought of it.
You think we didn't have these discussions
in 1970? Or 1930? There's nothing
new here. Truth is relative, live with it or
be a narcissist, your choice..

Quote: FrGamble

I've often been tempted to bring in some support to help me and have often prayed this would happen organically.

That would be nice, you don't get a whole lot of help on these issues here.