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Simple question?
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| January 24th, 2016 at 12:08:13 PM permalink | |
| Evenbob Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 146 Posts: 25013 |
"regarded the personality of atheists to be "less authoritarian and suggestible, less dogmatic, less prejudiced, more tolerant of others, law-abiding, compassionate, conscientious, and well educated. They are of high intelligence, and many are committed to the intellectual and scholarly life". "Secular group members tended to be... more open minded (e.g. more likely to consider new ideas) than members of religious groups." Yup to all of it. If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose. |
| January 24th, 2016 at 5:12:44 PM permalink | |
| Dalex64 Member since: Mar 8, 2014 Threads: 3 Posts: 3687 | http://rachelheldevans.com/blog/bible-clear filing this under simple questions. that website has quotes through the ages reflecting how society, at each point in time, used the bible to justify the rules and actions of society. What I would like to point out is that the bible has not changed, the word of god has not changed, but people and society have changed, and have made it necessary to "reinterpret" the word of god and live by rules which are different than those in the examples of society given by the bible. The rules that we live by now, and the changes from the rules that we lived by before, were made by all of us in society together, and laid down in accordance to what most of us consider to be moral and just behavior, despite what the bible "clearly" says on these various subjects. This is one of the things I use for evidence when I claim that the rules of the bible, and the rules of any religion in general, of that time were made by men for other men, not by god. We have changed the principles that we live by. They no longer agree with the words in the book, or the principles of society at various points in our own history. "universal truths" are just all that we still have in common with the principles of the past. they are the rules that we made that we all still agree with. some of them I would hope that we agree with forever, and think that we probably will. some of them have got to go, though. clinging to tradition can be just as bad for society as change. "Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts." Daniel Patrick Moynihan |
| January 24th, 2016 at 5:50:50 PM permalink | |
| Evenbob Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 146 Posts: 25013 |
For instance, slavery was a very needed part of society a couple thousand years ago, for the owner and for the slaves. It was a way of life understood by all, especially the totally ignorant and uneducated, which was the bulk of society. It was the grease that kept things going, until it outlived it's usefulness. If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose. |
| January 24th, 2016 at 9:44:57 PM permalink | |
| FrGamble Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 67 Posts: 7596 | I went back to where the digression began about what percentage of people throughout history believed or do believe there is a good and it was in response to Nareed's comment that "it is effingly obvious there is no God." This is certainly wrong because as I mentioned 99% of people or more throughout history have believed in some type of God or gods or great spirit or supreme being. Even when people deny the existence of a supreme being they recognize the supernatural. For example Evenbob believes in reincarnation and I think Nareed believes in a soul. We are religious beings by nature. Some on the forum seem to make science and by connection ourselves into a type of god that just needs time till we figure out all the mysteries of the universe. At no time have I ever or am I now saying that because 99% of all human beings throughout history have believed in the supernatural are they correct. 99% of all people could be wrong. However, what this clearly shows is that is NOT effingly obvious that there is no God. And I do still think it is evidence that there is could be something to the idea of the supernatural. If say a couple billion people say they saw something then it is pretty good evidence (NOT proof) that there may be something. “It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” ( |
| January 25th, 2016 at 5:30:14 AM permalink | |
| Dalex64 Member since: Mar 8, 2014 Threads: 3 Posts: 3687 | Are you saying it is against the rules of god to find the answers of the universe? Are you saying that all of the people who believe or believed in something supernatural that isn't the christian/jewish/muslim god believe in something that is real? It is against the teachings of those faiths that they believe(d) in something real. If a couple billion people think they saw something that isn't real, what does that say about using what they saw as evidence? What I see is that a lot of people believe in something that they believed someone else saw and experienced, and was then written in a book, or on scrolls, or was passed down by word of mouth through the ages. Billions of people believe 3rd hand (at a minimum) that something happened to someone else. "Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts." Daniel Patrick Moynihan |
| January 25th, 2016 at 6:31:01 AM permalink | |
| Nareed Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 346 Posts: 12545 |
About the same number who thought the Earth was the center of the universe? That didn't turn out well.
I've no idea how many times already I've stated the soul is physical, finite and mortal. There is nothing supernatural about it.
A math professor is lecturing his students. He covers half the blackboard in equations and says ""From this we can see it is obvious that," and proceeds to cover the other half of the board with equations. As he's writing the last ones, he suddenly stops and says "I think I made a mistake." he looks the board over, tracing each line of calculations and squiggles carefully. He pulls out a notepad and starts scribbling furiously. After collecting a pile of pages scribbled on both sides, he says "No, I was right. It is obvious." The moral is: the truth of an idea doesn't depend on whether it's obvious or not.
I don't think you'll claim 2 billion people have seen the one true god Seth. Donald Trump is a one-term LOSER |
| January 25th, 2016 at 8:56:29 AM permalink | |
| FrGamble Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 67 Posts: 7596 |
Nope, pretty much the opposite. Because we know there is God then we can trust that the universe He created is pretty awesome and is consistent and orderly and can teach us stuff. God also gave us this amazing intellect unlike anything else in the universe and seems to be saying to us, "Go for it! Explore learn and go where no man ha gone before!"
Surely. The reality of God does not fit in any box, even the nice big Catholic one. God is constantly reaching out to people in strange and varied ways to lead them to the truth or at least point them in the right direction. These people are far more closer to the truth than those who with no evidence or reason decide there is absolutely no "something supernatural".
Why would you even ask this question? If a couple of billion of people are wrong about something I think we have to first ask the question why? What was there about the evidence that led so many people to come to a conclusion that you obviously have proof that is not real or correct?
I don't think this third hand knowledge can explain the belief of individuals. If all I had was stories of other people's experiences of God and no personal experiences myself I would at best be able to say that other people have believed in God and it sounds pretty cool. Instead people who believe in God do so not because they have heard stories from someone else but because they have experience the divine, the supernatural, and ultimately the love of God intimately in their lives. “It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” ( |
| January 25th, 2016 at 8:59:43 AM permalink | |
| FrGamble Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 67 Posts: 7596 |
Your mixing up your science with metaphysics again.
Finite, mortal, and also unobservable and spiritual?
Okay so are you saying that atheism is not "effingly obvious", because then I would agree. “It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” ( |
| January 25th, 2016 at 10:02:35 AM permalink | |
| Nareed Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 346 Posts: 12545 |
Yes. Can you see it? Can you measure everything that goes into a thought, a personality, an interest, an act of creation? Does the death of Imhotep erase the Step Pyramid he designed? Does the death of Einstein erase the two theories of relativity he discovered? We've been through this before.
I'm saying you're an atheist as regards Demeter, Athena, Ist, Thoth, Venus, Marduk, Amun, Nut (pronounced Noot), Fortuna, Hathor and all the other cool gods. Donald Trump is a one-term LOSER |
| January 25th, 2016 at 11:19:11 AM permalink | |
| Evenbob Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 146 Posts: 25013 |
But all these so called 'experiences' people have with god always end up being next to nothing coincidences that they think are evidence of god interacting with them. Or 'feelings' they have that god is guiding them. Cherry picking events and ignoring others and giving god the credit. Famous atheist and former evangelical minister Dan Barker has said he thought he was having a minute to minute personal experience with Jesus for years and years, and it slowly occurred to him that he was just talking to himself, guiding himself. In the end he realized he was there was no god and he wisely became an atheist. If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose. |