Simple question?

Quote: Dalex64

It makes no sense for this universe to exist in the vast scale that it exists through the vast period of time that it has existed in order to support life on just this planet for the relatively short period of time that life has been here.

I find it interesting that you are complaining that the universe doesn't make sense and at the same time seemingly promoting the idea that the universe is completely random and based on chance. You can't say that it doesn't make sense for the universe to be so vast in space and time all to support life on Earth if you don't think the universe has some type of guiding hand. If you really believed that the universe was pure luck and chance than you should be very comfortable in saying that the universe supports this unique life on Earth because that is just the way it happened. I feel you though, it almost seems too designed and unbelievable. In all the universe we cannot see any life besides our own and our own planet. The evidence seems to point to the idea that the laws of the universe are fine tuned just to support us and life as we know it, however that can't be true right? That doesn't fit the model and philosophy of secular atheism.

Quote:

It is backwards thinking to wonder at how the universe was made so perfectly to support us. The process was opposite - life formed to perfectly fit with the universe.

Yes, but it is not backwards thinking to wonder about why the laws are such and how fine tuned they are. We are not talking about fiddling with a couple of these numbers and just a different type of life form would exist. We are talking about changing some of these constants in unbelievably small ways leads to not only no life, but no stars, no planets, just a universe of dispersed gas.

Quote: Evenbob

Because it left out that life really started
a short time ago with Adam and Eve?
This was about reality, which differs
slightly from the Bible.

Your little story is just that, a story, pure conjecture with no proof whatsoever. That fact has zero to do with God or creation stories. There is no such thing as prehistory. It's just history.

Quote: Evenbob

Because it left out that life really started
a short time ago with Adam and Eve?
This was about reality, which differs
slightly from the Bible.

You're right it is about reality, your reality.

Quote: FrGamble

I feel you though, it almost seems too designed
.

It doesn't feel designed at all unless
you want it to feel designed. We see
how incredibly easy it is to manipulate.
We can cross one fruit with another and
come up totally new fruits. We can
manipulate corn to grow almost anywhere.
We can make dozens of varieties of
roses.

Do you know where all the dogs in the
world come from? Around 10,000 years
ago, nomadic people started to domesticate
wolf puppies. Sometimes they would get
a weird one and would mate it with another
weird one and after doing this for thousands
of years, you get hundreds of species of dogs.

If we humans can manipulate nature this
easily, imagine what billions of years of random
chance can do. You see a creation because it
benefits your sales pitch. It's impossible for you
to see the world as it really is. My friend Ed the
ex priest sees it. And he can't can't calculate the
amount of resentment he has for the Church
brainwashing him all those years into accepting
a lie.

Quote: pew

There is no such thing as prehistory. It's just history.

When people say pre history, they mean before
recorded history. Duh.

Quote: Evenbob

When people say pre history, they mean before
recorded history. Duh.

I know what people mean by prehistory. You have no proof that it exists. Again there is only history. It means the record of the past. Duh.

Quote: pew

I know what people mean by prehistory. You have no proof that it exists. Again there is only history. It means the record of the past. Duh.

I have no idea what you're talking about
half the time. You make the most ridiculous
statements, you contradict yourself, then
do it again. Fah.

You're blocked, I don't have time for it.

Quote: FrGamble

To believe that all that we do ultimately is destined to mean nothing and in the grand scheme of things be worthless, which is the unavoidable consequence of atheism .

That assumes nothing more could be discovered through standard methods of evidence. As of yet, I haven't seen the limits reached in that area.

Seeing as how much more there is still to learn about the Universe, and even our Earth and even our own brains, we are a long way from declaring standard methods of discovery kaput.

I'm certainly not going to adopt your mythology to supplement real discovery.

Quote: Evenbob

I have no idea what you're talking about
half the time. You make the most ridiculous
statements, you contradict yourself, then
do it again. Fah.

You're blocked, I don't have time for it.

See kids. Stand up to a bully and they run away every time.

Quote: FrGamble

I find it interesting that you are complaining that the universe doesn't make sense and at the same time seemingly promoting the idea that the universe is completely random and based on chance. You can't say that it doesn't make sense for the universe to be so vast in space and time all to support life on Earth if you don't think the universe has some type of guiding hand. If you really believed that the universe was pure luck and chance than you should be very comfortable in saying that the universe supports this unique life on Earth because that is just the way it happened. I feel you though, it almost seems too designed and unbelievable. In all the universe we cannot see any life besides our own and our own planet. The evidence seems to point to the idea that the laws of the universe are fine tuned just to support us and life as we know it, however that can't be true right? That doesn't fit the model and philosophy of secular atheism.



Yes, but it is not backwards thinking to wonder about why the laws are such and how fine tuned they are. We are not talking about fiddling with a couple of these numbers and just a different type of life form would exist. We are talking about changing some of these constants in unbelievably small ways leads to not only no life, but no stars, no planets, just a universe of dispersed gas.

Don't put words in my mouth, and read all of the words that I wrote.

I did not say that the universe did not make sense, I said it does not make sense that the universe was designed around life on earth.

The laws of the universe are not fine tuned to support life. Life is tuned to fit the laws of the universe.

If a different universe had different laws, that still allowed matter to form but perhaps interact differently, the the life that evolved to fit in that universe would undoubtably be different than life as we know it.

Allowing a universe to exist where matter can not form does not eliminate the possibility that there could be a universe where matter formed differently. There is no reason to believe that our universe and our laws is the one and only one that can support matter and life.

There is no reason to think that there isn't life out there somewhere, possibly intelligent life, and no reason to think that intelligent life couldn't form later. Perhaps we are the first. Perhaps we are not. Vast distances and the speed of light are very isolating. Of course, that does not fit with your belief that the entire universe was made just for us.