Simple question?

Bob, did you read the first paragraph about how nothing about this world you and I live in looks like random chance?

Also I am not blaming us only calling us to a higher standard than the hedonism and selfishness that cause such misery in our world. I know you don't want to think about it or look at it because it makes us uncomfortable and makes us feel some responsibility. I know you might be more comfortable in your make believe world of no God so you can just continue to go around pretending and living as if you are God, but that is a false and unhappy way to live life. I'm not calling out just you. Myself and all of us need to wake up to our higher calling as human beings to care for those less fortunate than ourselves!

Quote: FrGamble

Bob, did you read the first paragraph about how nothing about this world you and I live in looks like random chance?

Everything about it looks random chance. Given
enough time, random looks like this. Did you
watch the video and how our brains developed
over time to a point where we could get to where
we are today. Random chance there too. You
act like random is an evil force. It's not, it's the
most creative force in the universe because
it's constantly striving to make sense out of
chaos. Random is constantly evolving us as
a species.

Quote: rxwine

2000 years. Amazing how long it can take for the greater population to finally abandon something they think has been working all along.

That's not all. As a religion, 2,000 years falls far short of how long polytheism hung around. Oh, that changed a great deal over millennia, but so has Christianity.

And as much as Christians want you to believe they invented religion and in particular monotheism, that's just not so. In fact, its success can best be explained by the fact that Christianity co-opted polytheism. Aside from a few splinters of this church, most varieties worship three gods (or perhaps two and a half). Catholics have four (or three and a half) major gods, and two boatloads of minor ones.

And now a joke.

During a drought in a small farming village, the villagers come to the tiny local church and ask the priest to lead a procession of baby Jesus through town, so perhaps they'll get some rain. The priest agrees and the ritual gets done shortly. A few days later the rains come, but then they turn torrential and the whole town suffers from flooding.

The villagers approach the priest again, and ask him to lead procession of Mary through town.

"Why," says the priest, "I should think we've had more than enough rain already."

"Indeed," replies the spokesman for the villagers. "What we want is to show the Virgin the mess his son made."

Quote: FrGamble

So do you think energy has created itself?

Show your evidence that energy requires creation.

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Or do you think energy is a necessary being that holds the reason for its existence in itself?

Show your evidence that a being, sentient or otherwise, is necessary for th continued existence of the universe.

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Do you think energy created the very laws that it is governed by?

Show your evidence that the laws of physics require creation.

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Basically, do you think energy is divine in some sense?

Of course not. I'm not a theist.

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Any religion that acknowledges the truth of God is far closer to truth than an atheist who against all evidence and against logic and reason itself claims that for sure there is no God.

I agree 100%. People who believe in one god are much closer to the truth that there is no god. Atheists are at the truth, not just close to it. Go and embrace Truth! Cast away your god!

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And I'll remind you that none of the deities have any followers today and that they were obviously always wrong about what their so called deity* was requiring of them.

*probably safer to use the word demon here.

So when the cult of Jehovah was limited to a tiny nation in Judea and Israel (citation needed), he didn't exist as much as he does today, or was he just not as all powerful as he is supposed to be now?

Now, how about we arrange a human sacrifice to the one true god Tlaloc. He might help get Mex City decent summer weather in the summer, rather than the rain He favors.

Remember that the universe and the laws of physics were here first.

Life as we know it evolved through random chance to fit within the laws of the universe.

Life didn't come first with the universe being designed later with rules designed to fit life as we know it.

It makes no sense for this universe to exist in the vast scale that it exists through the vast period of time that it has existed in order to support life on just this planet for the relatively short period of time that life has been here.

It is backwards thinking to wonder at how the universe was made so perfectly to support us. The process was opposite - life formed to perfectly fit with the universe.

Quote: Evenbob

This is a pretty neat 10min. Nothing here
you don't know probably, but he makes
good points about brain evolution. And
religion is never mentioned once.

That's a nice little fairy tale. What's your point? You like cartoons? Bugs Bunny doesn't talk much religion either.

Quote: Evenbob

You act like random is an evil force. It's not, it's the
most creative force in the universe because
it's constantly striving to make sense out of
chaos. Random is constantly evolving us as
a species.

Ummm...I'm not saying random is evil, are you saying random is good?!? You seem to be saying random chance is striving to make things make sense out of chaos? That would not be random. Random is exactly as it sounds random, there is no making sense of it. The fact that you are having trouble expressing what random is tells me that you too think there is a little bit too much order to our world to consider it random. Even evolution clearly has a goal in regards to survival and procreation.

Quote: pew

That's a nice little fairy tale.

Because it left out that life really started
a short time ago with Adam and Eve?
This was about reality, which differs
slightly from the Bible.

Quote: Dalex64

It is backwards thinking to wonder at how the universe was made so perfectly to support us. The process was opposite - life formed to perfectly fit with the universe.

What a great point. And it's so obvious when
you look at it. Creationists say 'what a perfect
world god gave us', when just looking around
for 2 min tells us it's as far from perfect as can be.
It's still evolving every second, it will never be
perfect.

Quote: Nareed

Show your evidence that energy requires creation.

Well since it did not create itself that means it is either eternal or created. If it was eternal then it would have an eternity ago fallen victim to the 2nd law of thermodynamics. If it is not eternal then it was created at some time in the past before the event we know of as the Big Bang.

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Show your evidence that a being, sentient or otherwise, is necessary for th continued existence of the universe.

The mystery of life and consciousness is something not explained just by the natural sciences. We all have souls that are spiritual creations constantly held into existence with the rest of material creation by the constant care of the creator.

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Show your evidence that the laws of physics require creation.

They like the universe are not necessary and do not have to exist. Therefore they were created.

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People who believe in one god are much closer to the truth that there is no god.

There is an ocean separating those who believe in any God or gods from the falsity of atheism. People who believe in God recognize the supernatural and that there is more to this life than just the stuff around us and the brief moments alive we have. Even if belief in any God wanes it is a loooooong way to fall into the lunacy that the stuff around is just random collections of atoms with no meaning, purpose, or real lasting significance. To believe that all that we do ultimately is destined to mean nothing and in the grand scheme of things be worthless, which is the unavoidable consequence of atheism (that even atheists try to deny or run away from), is so far away from belief in one God as to be not on the same planet. Even those who don't believe in God still acknowledge that they are more agnostic and that there is a spiritual and supernatural reality to life. Atheism is not just to cast away your God it is to cast away logic, reason, and hope itself. Only a fool would do so.