Hey FrGamble!

Quote: FrGamble

the different attitudes of the poor is more based on the despicable idea of the caste system. .

Whatever the reason, the results are
striking. Happy people versus doom
and gloom death worshiping Xtians
who think this life is meant for suffering
and hardship and all your rewards
come in the after life. You can't talk
to a Xtian about their religion without
death being the centerpiece.

Jesus died for your sins. Be good
and lead a chaste and sin free life
so you will be rewarded after you
die. Jesus rose from the dead.
Jesus main message was, repent,
these are the end times, we'll all
be dead soon and have to answer
to god. Go into any Catholic church
and the first thing you see is Jesus
dying on a huge cross. Yet every
Xtian will vehemently deny it's
a death worshiping religion. Very
humorous how they can't see
what their own religion is about.

Quote: Evenbob

Whatever the reason, the results are
striking. Happy people versus doom
and gloom death worshiping Xtians
who think this life is meant for suffering
and hardship and all your rewards
come in the after life. You can't talk
to a Xtian about their religion without
death being the centerpiece.

Jesus died for your sins. Be good
and lead a chaste and sin free life
so you will be rewarded after you
die. Jesus rose from the dead.
Jesus main message was, repent,
these are the end times, we'll all
be dead soon and have to answer
to god. Go into any Catholic church
and the first thing you see is Jesus
dying on a huge cross. Yet every
Xtian will vehemently deny it's
a death worshiping religion. Very
humorous how they can't see
what their own religion is about.

Quote: aceofspades

How about auctioning off all the Vatican's art, archives, gold, etc. and using it to help the poor?

Another of the many incongruities of the Catholic Church. Literally BILLIONS of dollars worth of art that is NOT EVEN ever displayed!

I am sort of interested in hearing Frg's rationalization..... It's a tougher one than the cushy lives priests live while there is hunger worldwide.
Well, maybe equally tough....

Quote: SOOPOO

Another of the many incongruities of the Catholic Church. Literally BILLIONS of dollars worth of art that is NOT EVEN ever displayed!

I am sort of interested in hearing Frg's rationalization..... It's a tougher one than the cushy lives priests live while there is hunger worldwide.
Well, maybe equally tough....

I wonder what Jesus would think of the Vatican's accumulation of wealth while people in the world are starving, without access to potable water and living in deplorable conditions

I assume FrG will claim the Vatican is a State and must have reserves of wealth and then flip the question and ask why countries all over the world have vast stores of wealth
My response: Those countries are not the HQ of a worldwide religion - they are accountable to their citizenry, not God

Quote: FrGamble

So you don't think the thief went right to Heaven to be with God?

Maybe he went to Hell, maybe he just died. Maybe the next roll will be a seven!

Quote: FrGamble
So you don't think the thief went right to Heaven to be with God?

In the myth, Jesus says the thief
is going to heaven today
WITH HIM, Jesus. Does it not?
If it's not true, why is it even there.
Is it just another line we're
supposed to ignore? In the
myth that would mean Jesus
went to heaven when he died,
and came back Sum morning
to pick up his body.

‘Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in paradise’”

added later: I looked it up and
this is a pretty big deal. The Church
has a bunch of ways it dances
around it but none are convincing.
Just another NT contradiction,
one among scores of others.

Quote: Evenbob

Whatever the reason, the results are
striking.

The reasons matter very much.

Quote:

doom
and gloom death worshiping Xtians
who think this life is meant for suffering
and hardship and all your rewards
come in the after life.

This is exactly what I am talking about. You have no idea how strange and stupid this description of Christianity is, or maybe you do and are just trying to be mean. Let me be perfectly clear that we worship the Resurrected Lord Jesus who is the way, the truth, and the life! Death is defeated and when we see the suffering of Christ we see the most perfect act of love! Life is meant for joy and peace that has been corrupted by sin. It is a blessing in the here and now to work for the Lord and the retirement benefits are out of this world!

Quote:

Jesus died for your sins. Be good
and lead a chaste and sin free life
so you will be rewarded after you
die.

Again you say these things without any understanding. Salvation has nothing to do with our good works, they are a response to a God who loves us and in whom we trust and have faith.

Quote:

Very humorous how they can't see
what their own religion is about.

It is not humorous to read these things from someone who clearly knows nothing of Christianity and even less of Catholicism. You hubris is off the charts.

Quote: SOOPOO

Another of the many incongruities of the Catholic Church. Literally BILLIONS of dollars worth of art that is NOT EVEN ever displayed!

I am sort of interested in hearing Frg's rationalization..... It's a tougher one than the cushy lives priests live while there is hunger worldwide.
Well, maybe equally tough....

First of all I think we need to be more realistic about what Billions of dollars would do. Please remember that the Catholic Church is the single largest charitable organization on the face of the earth. The vast majority of its art is on display and not only in free museums but in its Churches open to all people. Art is not meant to be sold but admired and meant to inspire. That is its purpose and the purpose for which it was created and given to the Vatican. Beauty is a way in which we can all, rich or poor, encounter the divine.

That being said I do think the Church should always be held to a higher standard and everything it does should be about serving humanity with a special attention to the materially poor. We also need to serve the spiritually poor. I was struck by Mother Teresa's comment when she visited America and remarked that she had never before seen such poverty. Poverty of spirit. Art is a way to reach the spiritual poor and lift there souls to remind them there is something more than this life and to inspire them to love God and love others.

Finally, I need to say, and I think you already know this, that it is a big mistake to say that the life of a priest is cushy. Even some of my brothers who I believe could live much more simply are by no means living what anyone would call a cushy life. The vast majority of priests outside of the first world live heroic lives of service and poverty. I wonder if the right question is not are priests doing enough? Or is the Vatican doing enough? Because even if they gave everything away and stripped the museums and Churches of all the art it wouldn't be enough to feed all the hungry for one day. The question to ask is if all of us are doing enough? There is more than enough food for everyone to eat, the really tough question is why are so many people starving?

Quote: FrGamble

This is exactly what I am talking about. You have no idea how strange and stupid this description of Christianity is,

C'mon, you know what a dark
history and message the Church
has. There is even a death
worshiping Catholic branch in
Mexico called Santa Muerte
(Saint Death) that's been
around off and on for 500
years. It's the fastest growing
Catholic sect in the world.
Over 10 million followers in
Mexico alone.

"The cult of Santa Muerte is present throughout the strata of Mexican society, although the majority of devotees are from the urban working class. A large following developed among Mexicans who are disillusioned with the dominant, institutional Catholic Church and, in particular, with the inability of established Catholic saints to deliver them from poverty."

They got sick of praying to the
Catholic saints who gave them
exactly nothing, so now they
pray to Saint Death. They
went directly to the dark side
of the religion and skipped
the middle man.

Of course the Vatican has condemned
the cult, but that changes nothing.
These are all good Catholics jumping
ship to something they consider
just as viable as the Church itself.
And it will only get bigger. It's already
in the mainstream of Mexican culture.
Santa Muerte objects and items are
for sale everywhere.

Remember the scene in Breaking
Bad when the cousins in the
suits with silver skulls on the
toes of their boots crawled on
their bellies in the dirt to a
shrine? That's Santa Muerte.
To an atheist on the outside,
it's all one big religious mess,
and entertaining as can be.

Saint Death items are sold right
alongside regular Catholic items
all over Mexico.

This I didn't know. Catholicism is
dropping like a rock in Latin America.
15 years ago 84% identified as Catholic,
today it's 69%. Protestantism is
surging, up 10%. But the real surge
is to Santa Muerte.

Fascinating Saint. They finally realized
Xtianity is a death worshiping religion
and went with that theme to the max.