Was Jesus God?

Quote: Dalex64

in particular, look under Common Misconceptions about Mitochondrial Eve.

What many people fail to understand is that few organisms fossilize and few of those fossils are found (or can even be found). Determining things down to a crossed "t" is impossible. All we can hope for is some kind of clear indication.

For example, if you find the fossils of 10 T. Rexes in one spot, this indicates they all died there. It further indicates they lived or traveled in groups (this is very simplistic), but not that it was a common animal.

Things like this, more complex than my examples, lead us to believe hominids were few in number. Invariable we descended from a very small pool of genetic stock. But not as small as one female and one male.

Further, though mitochondria might descend form a single source, this doesn't mean no other women contributed to the gene pool. Their sons would not pass on their mitochondria, but would carry genes from these women.

Quote: Nareed

Further, though mitochondria might descend form a single source, this doesn't mean no other women contributed to the gene pool. Their sons would not pass on their mitochondria, but would carry genes from these women.

Yes, that is exactly what the first misconception says.

Cain would have married his sister or cousin or niece. Adam and eve probably had over a hundred kids. Make no mistake, Judeo-Christianity does depend on a literal Genesis account of history which is why it gets attacked so vociferously. Do away with Gen 1-11 and you successfully do away with Christ. If a person wants to stand up for Jesus according to the scriptures of the new testament they must also take a stand for Genesis as literal truth, period.

Make no mistake Judeo-Christianity does NOT depend on a literal interpretation of Genesis. The truths of Genesis are all true from creation ex nihilio to the common ancestors of the human race and the fall of mankind in disobedience to God. These fundamental truths as well as the patriarchs are what brings us eventually to Christ.

Quote: Dalex64

Yes, that is exactly what the first misconception says.

No doubt the second is that her sisters and half sisters would have had identical mitochondria, assuming descent from the same mother. And her cousins and aunts as well, if descended matrilinealy from the same grandmother. So we could be talking about a metaphorical "Eve" consisting of a dozen or so related women.

Quote: FrGamble

These fundamental truths as well as the patriarchs are what brings us eventually to Christ.

I'm sorry, but this makes me yawn.
It's like I keep hoping you'll bust
out of this mindset and continue
on to something else. It's like
you're stuck and are desperately
trying to get out.

Quote: FrGamble

Make no mistake Judeo-Christianity does NOT depend on a literal interpretation of Genesis. The truths of Genesis are all true from creation ex nihilio to the common ancestors of the human race and the fall of mankind in disobedience to God. These fundamental truths as well as the patriarchs are what brings us eventually to Christ.

Ok. Is there any evidence of this kind of single-god worship in Africa among early h. sapiens?

As far as I know, the earliest such evidence is not even found in Africa.

The last wouldn't be a deal-breaker, except there's no trace in Africa of a garden-like space free of predators and with crops fit for human consumption.

Dalex those were excellent and helpful links thank you very much.

In this interesting discussion I first want to say that again I think it quite amazing that Scripture, while not a scientific textbook, seems to be so far ahead of its time in the general ideas, not the details, that modern science points to today. In looking at the world it would have been hard for an ancient person to have the conception of creation out of nothing, that the universe had an ultimate beginning. In fact many people without a knowledge of philosophy and first causes through Aristotle would probably assume eternal matter. Also in looking at the human race in all its amazing diversity and differences one would naturally think that we all came from different people from all over the earth. Yet both in creation and in the common origin of all humans the story of Genesis is more correct than these common conceptions of the day.

Anyway my theory about Adam and Eve is that our human bodies developed under the principles of evolution and the divine providence of God to a point where God then gave two original people immortal souls and the characteristic intelligence that makes us human. As intelligence does not evolve this gives us an answer to where human consciousness comes from. The bottleneck of human development to provide us with the current diversity of all human life we have today is usually estimated to be around 2,000-3,000 people as the "effective population size". Off this population Adam and Eve receive the first human souls. The fall happens shortly after that and things get messy in lots of ways.

As the rules of physics seem to break down at the horizon of the Big Bang the laws we know so well about incest and what will amount to bestiality break down as well at this point. Sin has entered into the world and humanoids without souls but with human bodies can be as tempting as any other or can become concubines to true human beings. There is also the possibility of violence and either taking either by force. There is also the reality of incest at this time before the law of God forbids it and before its disastrous consequences we experience today. Every human being with a soul that has a child, even if it is only one member of the partner passes on Original Sin and an immortal soul and the human intelligence that goes with it. Eventually as science shows us these non rational humans die off or through interbreeding are all replaced with humans with souls and original sin.

Here are some interesting links as well:

Does Evolution contradict Genesis?

Knowing an Ape from Adam

Quote: FrGamble

In looking at the world it would have been hard for an ancient person to have the conception of creation out of nothing, that the universe had an ultimate beginning.

Egypt, the whole raft of early civilizations in Mesopotamia, just to name a few.

Quote:

Also in looking at the human race in all its amazing diversity and differences one would naturally think that we all came from different people from all over the earth. Yet both in creation and in the common origin of all humans the story of Genesis is more correct than these common conceptions of the day.

Egypt, the whole raft of early civilizations in Mesopotamia, just to name a few.. Hmm, I'm sure I've heard this before.

Quote:

As intelligence does not evolve this gives us an answer to where human consciousness comes from.

Wow, you've just undone the work of all primatologists and many neuroscientists... No, wait, you didn't. But that's because they have mountains of evidence to back up their claims and you have none.

Let's try to find some: how did the hominids which preceded h. sapiens come up with tool-making abilities without intelligence?

Oh, and the Neanderthals were neither brutes nor without intelligence.