Was Jesus God?

Quote: FrGamble

Why is it that people feel good when they give? Wouldn't a strict morality based on atheism find giving to be a silly and stupid thing to do, unless it somehow benefited yourself?

What is the Navajo word for God and sin?

You are equating "atheist" and "selfish" for no good reason.

Quote: FrGamble

What is the Navajo word for God and sin?

They have no word or concept for sin. They
believe in a great spirit who has no personality.
They worship gods of wind and water and earth.
They have no punishment or reward after death,
they believe they go onto another life somewhere
else after they die.

"The traditional Navajo way contains no concept for religion as an activity which is separate from daily life. Navajo religion has been described as 'life itself, the land, and well-being.' All living things - people, plants, animals, mountains, and the Earth itself - are relatives. Each being is infused with its own spirit, or 'inner form', which gives it life and purpose within an orderly and interconnected universe."

Teaching these people about the ridiculous death
worshiping cult of Christianity and it's tyrannical
punishing god was totally at odds with their native
beliefs. Most rejected it out of hand and when the
priests insisted they believe, many pretended too
but really did not. Eventually they concentrated
on the children, kids will believe anything.

There is a difference between religion and spirituality.

Spirituality recognizes love, religion tries to beat you with it.

Quote: FrGamble

I think someone said the ultimate test of morality is to ask what you would do if you were invisible? The question comes down to this; if you knew there was no chance you could get caught in a worldly sense would you do something that would cause great harm to a stranger but was greatly beneficial to you?

Maybe I'll emulate your all powerful and knowing god and let a tsunami roll into Asia and Japan killing tens of thousands and do nothing?

He is all powerful and knowing, I assume. He doesn't have excuses. No one can stop him and he's invisible.

Maybe when you stop worshipping a horrible example I'll tell you why I am not better or worse than you.

Quote: Dalex64

You are equating "atheist" and "selfish" for no good reason.

I'm not equating them, I'm just saying they are not mutually exclusive.

Quote: Evenbob

They believe in a great spirit who has no personality.
They worship gods of wind and water and earth.

So do you think that they would say polluting the water, indiscriminately killing buffalo, or destroying the ozone layer are sins against the great spirit, which will be punished?

Quote: petroglyph

There is a difference between religion and spirituality.

Spirituality recognizes love, religion tries to beat you with it.

Good one.

Quote: rxwine

Maybe I'll emulate your all powerful and knowing god and let a tsunami roll into Asia and Japan killing tens of thousands and do nothing?

While you are at it, would you see if you can do something about Fukushima? That's really getting out of hand.

Quote: rxwine

Maybe I'll emulate your all powerful and knowing god and let a tsunami roll into Asia and Japan killing tens of thousands and do nothing?

He is all powerful and knowing, I assume. He doesn't have excuses. No one can stop him and he's invisible.

Maybe when you stop worshipping a horrible example I'll tell you why I am not better or worse than you.

Interesting dodge of the question. I'll ask again would you hurt someone if you couldn't get caught and it was of great benefit to you?

In regards to tsunamis and the like you really paint yourself in a corner in a couple of ways. Either those people die and are done, wiped out of existence, with some never experiencing the happiness they longed for or the justice they deserved or they experience the judgment of God and receive His infinite love and peace for all eternity. One way leads to the nausea of Sartre the other to a glimmer of hope in the midst of tragedy.

The other thing you need to keep in mind that an all-knowing, all-powerful, loving God is not incompatible logically speaking with such tragedies. You and I who are none of these things and are bound by time and space assume there cannot be a reason for God as we all understand Him to allow such things, but this is not necessarily so. In fact in order to respect our free will and therefore allowing our disobedience and the resulting disorder that caused might be the only way to save the greatest number of people even through the suffering of a broken world that has such occurrences in it.

Quote: FrGamble

Mike could tell you.

Mike sincerely believes God has forgiven him. How do you prove him wrong?

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First of all no atheist knows there are no gods or no afterlife.

I don't know that I won't receive all the money on Earth tomorrow as a gift from the Tooth Fairy. But I won't plan my life as though it's a possibility, even if it's much more likely than an after life.

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However an atheist can feel (very incorrectly) that they get off scott free with no consequences at all.

You keep equating "atheist" with "immoral."

But we don't need the threat of Hell to behave decently towards others.

I said so before. Even Christians can act morally, in spite of their beliefs.

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There would be and it would be a humbling experience to be reminded that you only know a small and miniscule sliver of history, time, truth, and understanding.

I doubt a bitchy display like he gave Job would impress me. Certainly it wouldn't be humbling.

See? You keep thinking that somehow, despite everything I've very said here, I do really and truly either believe in God (with a CAPITAL g), or very much want to. Therefore your pronouncements tot he majesty, might, power, "love," or whatever of GOD will somehow impress me.

I wish you could get this straight: the god of the Bible is a Hebrew myth, no more real than Athena, Gilgamesh or Captain Kirk. You may as well try to impress me by repeating Spock's death scene, or base your moral theory on a Spiderman catch-phrase or on the Oedipus tragedies..

I have read parts of the Bible. I'm not impressed, either. I'm satisfied, and relieved, that the god of that particular desert tribe is not real.

So, really, I truly do not believe in Jehovah, or any other god, nor do I want to.