Was Jesus God?

Quote: FrGamble

We have covered this myth many times.

Probably more verifiable than the myth you currently hold about a god.

Quote: FrGamble

I would also like to better understand the feelings and perspective of our homosexual brothers and sisters and the transgendered so that I could better respect and be sensitive to them while at the same time speaking the truth.

You were doing so well until you reached the end of the last sentence.

You cannot learn anything if you think you already know it. You will not find widespread confirmation of your "truth." All subjects have to be approached without preconceptions and with an active mind. If you intend to learn cosmology while holding fast to the idea that the universe was created in 4004 BCE, for example, you won't benefit much.

I said before people don't live religions, theories, politics, philosophies, etc. People live lives.

This seems too obvious, and hardly a point worth making. But I think it's very valid. We all have preconceptions and the rest of the world does its best to shake them. This is so even when the preconceptions are highly intellectual ones, well-reasoned, and even tested and validated.

I started Mike Duncan's "History of Rome" podcast with a vague notion of the Classical world and many notions about Rome's military and political savvy. Duncan (Caesar Augustus Pedagogicus Maximus) batted them off in short order. I might have stopped listening and retreated to comfortable beliefs, but then I'd have lost intellectually.

I was very disappointed by the Romans. Try as I might, my view of them couldn't survive contact with reality. They were not bad at all, in general terms, except when they were horrible people, even by their own standards. The Greeks were even worse. But I learned the real history, as far as we know it.

Also you won't learn by approaching people, actual individuals, and asking them loaded questions designed to elicit agreement with your point of view.

I wouldn't go that far. What is fair to say is that up until very recently laws and ethics have been built mainly on religious beliefs and principles be it Judeo-Christian Law in the West, Sharia law in Muslim countries, or Shinto, Buddhist, etc. Most countries in the world operate on English or Napoleonic law which is derived from Roman law which is based on Christian law.

It is unclear what legal system would have been derived without the influence or belief of these ancient texts, but clearly it wouldn't be this one. It is unclear that a common set of morals and ethics would have been derived in an athiest world. From my perspective however, if you look at today's version of capitalism when people's motives are governed by profit, it is unclear to me that an athiest world would be any better than this one. If you look at the Soviet Union's attempt to take religion out of the equation and replace it with Communism you also saw a society that failed due to corruption and the inability to interact with the rest of the world.

There is no guarantee that athiests would have come up with rules and regulations that favor equal pay or LGBT rights. My feeling is that they would have built a set of rules that would either favor absolute capitalism without welfare or absolute welfare without capitalism. In either case they are both very corrupt and rift with unfairness. I just don't see why one would be believe or display any evidence that an athiest culture would come up with anything better than the cultures and societies built on religion.

It is easy to criticize something that has existed for eons and favor a idealistic system that hasn't been tried (or a system that has been tried and failed).

Quote: FrGamble

On the contrary an atheist thinking that this is the only life we got

Wrong again. There are many atheists who
think life continues on into another life.
You can't pigeonhole atheists, no matter
how hard you try.

Quote: rxwine

You must not be an AP.

I don't know about that. Wouldn't the ultimate risk vs. reward scenario lead one to a strong belief in God. There are no disadvantages. You lead a good, holy, and happy life and then experience the gift of ultimate peace and joy for eternity at the end. If you were a true AP, you would certainly believe in God.

Quote:

But I obey all kinds of laws, because of the earthly consequences. Being an atheist doesn't make it less consequential.

I think someone said the ultimate test of morality is to ask what you would do if you were invisible? The question comes down to this; if you knew there was no chance you could get caught in a worldly sense would you do something that would cause great harm to a stranger but was greatly beneficial to you?

Quote: petroglyph

The reason people give is because it makes them feel good, not because they think Gods watching and they will go to heaven because of it.

In the Navajo language, there is no word for religion.

Why is it that people feel good when they give? Wouldn't a strict morality based on atheism find giving to be a silly and stupid thing to do, unless it somehow benefited yourself?

What is the Navajo word for God and sin?

Quote: Evenbob

Golly, it's almost like he's not there at all.

Like a friend you haven't met yet.

Quote: Evenbob

Wrong again. There are many atheists who
think life continues on into another life.
You can't pigeonhole atheists, no matter
how hard you try.

Oh come on now man, you can't keep saying this after you abandon your thread on reincarnation after getting some good intelligent pushback. You also can't keep saying the same stuff over and over even after it has been shown to be wrong.

Quote: Nareed

Also you won't learn by approaching people, actual individuals, and asking them loaded questions designed to elicit agreement with your point of view.

This last line makes a lot of sense to me and reminds me of one of the all time greatest scenes in movie history:

Quote: boymimbo

Most countries in the world operate on English or Napoleonic law which is derived from Roman law which is based on Christian law.

<roll-eyes>

Roman law goes back to the rise of the Roman Republic, around the Third century BCE. It derived, at least in part, from Greek law and political practices, very likely as they existed in Magna Graecia rather than in the Greek mainland itself. It then developed with the usual influences for 600 years before any Roman official dared to openly admit to worshipping Jesus.

To call it "based on Christian law," is as accurate as to call modern medicine "based on prehistoric healing rituals."


Much as it may pain you to hear it, there was morality long before there was Christianity, Judaism or even monotheism.