Was Jesus God?

Quote: petroglyph

I don't wish to offend either, but it seems to me what you have is a job. You deny yourself what your God intended for you as far as the man/woman relationship. Taking that vow of celibacy clearly opposite of what is written puzzles me. You speak of natural law, it seems so opposite to me, I don't get it?

Over many years of discernment and prayer I have chosen celibacy to be radically available to the people of God and to deepen my dependence and relationship with my Lord Jesus Christ in whom my commitment to others is meant to imitate.

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Don't you ever have doubts about what you are doing? I would think there are moments however small, that scare the heck out of people in your business.

When I believe causes others such obvious difficulty and pain it hurts very badly. My doubts or temptation is to allow my emotions and desires to make everyone happy take over and overcome what I believe is true. I don't doubt for a second intellectually the truth that sexual relationships are meant to be in the covenant of married love between a man and a woman. I don't doubt that a child is best raised when possible with a loving mother and father and I don't doubt intellectually that the sexual activity of two men or two women or adultery or fornication, etc. are unnatural acts that our bodies, natural law, and revelation show us are wrong. However, it pains me deeply when such truths cause such pain for others.

In the end I fall back on two things. First, that truth is often uncomfortable for me and for others and a true father doesn't give up trying to show his loved ones what is right and wrong just because they don't want to hear it. Secondly, I trust that God is bigger than me and my Church and His mercy far extends beyond my feeble understanding. I know God is working much harder and more effectively than I will ever be able to do with my inadequacies to convince people of the truth and forgive people's failure to understand that truth with an infinite compassionate love.

Quote: FrGamble

Over many years of discernment and prayer I have chosen celibacy to be radically available to the people of God and to deepen my dependence and relationship with my Lord Jesus Christ in whom my commitment to others is meant to imitate.

Is it thought that Jesus was celibate? If so, was it intentional and if he hadn't been murdered might he have found a wife?

If you are attempting to emulate Jesus, are you also a carpenter and a fisherman and a wanderer?

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When I believe causes others such obvious difficulty and pain it hurts very badly.

I don't think it's what you believe that hurts people, but more your perceived authority in the community. I admitted before of not reading the bible cover to cover but I have read some. It seems obvious that what is written in the bible makes it clear that you were intended to live what you define as a natural life and make children.

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My doubts or temptation is to allow my emotions and desires to make everyone happy take over and overcome what I believe is true. I don't doubt for a second intellectually the truth that sexual relationships are meant to be in the covenant of married love between a man and a woman.

It does not appear that you allow yourself to consider these subjects objectively. I believe even if you remain celibate that you are denying yourself things you may not realize. You are denying yourself the experience of considering things objectively without prejudice.

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I don't doubt that a child is best raised when possible with a loving mother and father...

Love isn't enough Padre. There are tens of thousands of parents in prison who love their offspring that have no business raising kids. Out of the billions of potential good parents available, most of them are inadequate to rear children, love or affection is most important for toddlers or babies, but getting them to a point in life where they can benefit society in return requires other means. Dedication, attention, intelligence, desire etc.

What I think is most important, is not putting yourself first.

Quote: petroglyph

How bad do you want to know what it feels like? I think you could gain quite a bit of perspective by dressing as a woman, complete with make up and walk through your nearest hate filled redneck village. Walk a mile in their moccasins, so to speak.

The answer here is simple. Dress proper for your sex in public. A guy dressing as a woman is doing so to get attention.

FWIW I am a bit tired of being called a "redneck" just because I do not want to accept this kind of attnetion-whoring behavior. And really do not call me a "hater" or "redneck" unless one is prepared to call the same to many of the atheist comments here.

Putting on pants or a dress is a choice.

FrGamble of course represents the Catholic Church and is bound to their rules and catechism. But FrGamble feels persecution all the time from Christians who are not Catholics, athiests, and the unreligious. Don't kid yourself. Being religious and declaring it as so is not an easy thing to do. It is far easier to go with the flow and state that whatever feels good at the time is okay. This is different than people who are religious changing one's view because of scientific revelations (the Universe is very old, being gay is not a psychological disorder).

My kid and I had a good talk about religion and spirituality last night. She laughed and said that she would never become a Christian. The main reason for her is that the religion is so patriarchal and she is feminist. Christianity suppresses women. That's true and is seen by most Christians as biblically inspired. That alone is a reason to avoid Christianity for some.

I am reasonable enough to understand that religion is a construct based on a belief system based on faith - faith in believing a set of books written more than a millennia ago. Those who believe in God really are subscribing to the notion that there is more to life than what meets the eye - beyond science and nature and reality. And if you believe in one iota of "supernatural" beliefs, be it karma, ghosts, reincarnation, etc, then you are admitting to a system that exists beyond science.

I accept the ridicule of others when it comes to my religious beliefs.

Quote: petroglyph

How bad do you want to know what it feels like? I think you could gain quite a bit of perspective by dressing as a woman, complete with make up and walk through your nearest hate filled redneck village. Walk a mile in their moccasins, so to speak.

Obvious comparisons to blackface aside, it's not even close.

In atheist circles an often-used meme goes like this: "threatening an atheist with Hell is like telling an adult that Santa won't bring him presents this Christmas." Using the wrong pronoun on a cisgender person is something like that. Using on a transgender person causes actual psychological pain and other negative consequences. It's not just offensive or disrespectful, it's mean and malicious. You can't get to feel that if you don't feel it.

Quote: FrGamble

While I do not think I have ever experienced these things to the degree you have I will say I have been the victim of all the things you mention because of who I am.

I don't believe in competitions as to who hurts worse. But there's a difference in kind that is important. I don't want to get into details, but let me ask this:

1) How often do people tell you to kill yourself?
2) Do people who claim to be on your side find it necessary to remind you they haven't beaten you up or tried to kill you?

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I don't think it is wrong to ask for clarification and explanations, it is how we learn.

It is when I say "blue" and you ask why I said "red," and then keep asking me to defend "red."

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I believe in many ways your life choices speak to a position that there are real differences between men and women but both genders are equal,

And that, too, is insensitive and offensive.

Quote: petroglyph

Is it thought that Jesus was celibate? If so, was it intentional and if he hadn't been murdered might he have found a wife?

If you are attempting to emulate Jesus, are you also a carpenter and a fisherman and a wanderer?

I am a itinerant preacher and a priest and this was more central to who Jesus was than his occupation during His hidden life.

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I don't think it's what you believe that hurts people, but more your perceived authority in the community. I admitted before of not reading the bible cover to cover but I have read some. It seems obvious that what is written in the bible makes it clear that you were intended to live what you define as a natural life and make children.

I think as you continue to read the Bible you will find that living celibacy is a calling that is not against what the Bible intends. Marriage is a wonderful good, but it is not for everyone.

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I believe even if you remain celibate that you are denying yourself things you may not realize. You are denying yourself the experience of considering things objectively without prejudice.

As I mentioned I spent more than six years discerning and praying over my vocation. The choice for celibacy is not lightly made and it requires you realize deeply what you are denying yourself.

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Love isn't enough Padre. There are tens of thousands of parents in prison who love their offspring that have no business raising kids. Out of the billions of potential good parents available, most of them are inadequate to rear children, love or affection is most important for toddlers or babies, but getting them to a point in life where they can benefit society in return requires other means. Dedication, attention, intelligence, desire etc.

I think love leads to dedication, attention, desire, and all the things parents undoubtedly need to raise children. If you have dedication, attention, intelligence, and desire but do not have love there will be serious problems with your parenthood.

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What I think is most important, is not putting yourself first.

On this point I could not agree with you more, well said!!!

Quote: Nareed

And that, too, is insensitive and offensive.

I fear we cannot logically discuss this issue further. Peace and Blessings!

Quote: FrGamble

I fear we cannot logically discuss this issue further.

Rephrasing a question as a statement does not make it any better.

Quote: AZDuffman

Dress proper for your sex in public.

Why? What difference does it make to you? if someone is different than your standards?

Lop the heads off these people and you could have a problem guessing which is which in some cases.



If people wear a beard, fine or dress in one color. I don't. Nobody needs to correct me, on what I look like because they aren't in charge of it.



While I think head to toe garments are not for me or constant black clothes and beards, I'm not their guardian, so whatever. IF THEY WANT TO FLAUNT THIS IN PUBLIC, SO WHAT?