Was Jesus God?

Quote: rxwine

Bullshit. Gay couples don't consider themselves second class choices when there isn't a heterosexual couple.

You've heard someone disagree.

This is not disagreeing, this is spouting off emotionally. I understand that this issue can cause some to do that and that is okay. However, Gay couples should not consider themselves second class choices but they should recognize that a heterosexual couple all things being equal offers something that they cannot. It is not to say they are bad or they can't raise children, that is bullshit. However, what stinks to high heaven is the idea that we should ignore our weaknesses and pretend we are all the same and can do everything the same and just as good as anyone else just so we can feel good about ourselves. Be comfortable with who you are, strengths and weaknesses, and don't consider yourself a second class citizen just because you are different.

Quote: FrGamble

This is not disagreeing, this is spouting off emotionally. I understand that this issue can cause some to do that and that is okay. However, Gay couples should not consider themselves second class choices but they should recognize that a heterosexual couple all things being equal offers something that they cannot..

You should have seen what I wrote before I deleted it. I have two good friends in Texas /married lesbian couple who had a child through a sperm donor. They didn't adopt, but certainly could've gone that route. The comment that heterosexual couple would have been the preferred choice was highly offensive.

It would certainly have been offensive if you had said it in their presence. It still is, even when they are not here.

I would congratulate them and give thanks for the new life that is their child. I would pray for their success as parents and do anything I could to help them. However, if they asked me if I thought their child should have a father I would say yes. If they asked me that all things being equal a child would do better with a mom and a dad I would say yes.

If that is offensive it is only emotionally so, which is often much stronger than the offense provided to our reason. In fact I think part of the emotion you feel is because you know I have a point but think that admitting it means your friends are awful people. Newsflash - they are not! Again I hope and pray they are the best possible parental figures for their child but the truth that we all really know is that it is not natural for a woman to use a sperm donor in order to conceive. If you take your emotions out of it and just use reason and logic you may be able to agree with me but still hate me for saying it.

Quote: AZDuffman

Have you ever considered that men have to pay for it because it is unnatural and because it is so it does not feel good to the woman?

75% of married people have no sex at all,
that's why men visit prostitutes. It has nothing
to do with what fits where and how it feels.

Quote: FrGamble

However, if they asked me if I thought their child should have a father I would say yes. If they asked me that all things being equal a child would do better with a mom and a dad I would say yes.
.

This is where your obvious bigotry is in
full view. What kind of man would the
father be? You have no idea, just so he's
a male. He could easily be a very bad
father, the world is full of them. But that
doesn't concern you, in your bigotry any
father is better than a child being raised
by two Lesbian women who love and adore
him.

In the old days, a bigoted White man would
hire another White man every time instead
of a Black man, no matter how better qualified
the Black man was. Better to have all Whites
than even one Black. That's you attitude in
this issue. Your bigotry against Gays prevents
you from seeing that an unqualified man makes
a very poor father and the child would be far
better off with the two women.

Your bigotry prevents you from weighting each
case individually, you just paint them all with
the same bigoted brush.

Quote: Evenbob

This is where your obvious bigotry is in
full view. What kind of man would the
father be? You have no idea, just so he's
a male. He could easily be a very bad
father, the world is full of them. But that
doesn't concern you, in your bigotry any
father is better than a child being raised
by two Lesbian women who love and adore
him.

NO, this is where your outrageous bigotry blinds you! You too have no idea the kind of man the father would be. If he would be a good father, and the world is full of them, it would be a good thing for the child. Do you disagree? I have not nor would not say that any random bad male would be better than a loving lesbian couple, you too are creating strawmen and putting words into my mouth, just stop it.

Quote:

That's you attitude in
this issue.

Don't you ever again dare to call me a racist or a bigot! You may be happy and fine with those terms but I am not! Those names go against everything I believe in and if you could ever show me where I was truly being bigoted or discriminatory I would humbly and sincerely apologize and change my views immediately.

Quote: FrGamble

You too have no idea the kind of man the father would be. If he would be a good father, and the world is full of them,

But that's NOT how the Church does it! They
don't vett the father to see if he'd be a good
one, they just wave their holy hand and dismiss
the idea of two women as parents completely.
They never look at any case and side for the
women (or men). Ever.

Quote:

Don't you ever again dare to call me a racist or a bigot!

What should it be called, then. Saying a
man and woman is the best choice for
a child EVERY SINGLE TIME, and ruling
out Gay parents entirely, what is that called
if not bigotry against Gays.

Bigot: one who regards or treats the members of a group with intolerance

Would you say your Church is tolerant of
Gays as parents, or are they intolerant.
They flat out disapprove of both parents
being of the same sex every single time
it comes up, that's the very definition of
intolerance. What word should be used
to describe this intolerance, then. You tell
me.

Quote: FrGamble

To be honest I am a little surprised to hear you say that the distinction between men and women is inessential.

Legally it should be. morally it is.

But what I said is the distinction between same sex and heterosexual couples is inessential.

You really should stop playing the "men and women are different" obfuscation. You're not actually confusing anyone.

Quote:

I'm not impressed by sweeping statements that are not true and are solely based on past results.

You can easily check. Any attempt to merely differentiate legal treatment is a means of restricting the rights of some group. Like recent proposals to abolish birthright citizenship. Do you think that is so a child born of immigrant parents will be equal to a child born of native-born parents?

Quote:

Is this the sole reason why you don't think a different name used to better describe a homosexual couple is wrong?

It's one reason we should not create a different name which serves no function anyway. A long-term exclusive union of two loving people is a marriage, and the specific identities of the parties involved are not relevant.

Quote: Evenbob

But that's NOT how the Church does it! They
don't vett the father to see if he'd be a good
one,

This is not true. I'm not talking about just putting any bum as a father. The purpose of these adoption agencies is to vet both the father and mother. It is an exhaustive process and many are rejected because the father or mother is not a good one. Surely you wouldn't be against the vetting of a homosexual couple as well. The key is to have good parents, if you have two super loving couples one is a same-sex couple and one is a heterosexual couple I have no problem saying that the child will do better with a mother and a father than having two mothers or two fathers. I don't think this is bigotry. Let me be clear that I am not saying a gay couple cannot be good parents and if the father is a jerk than the child may very well do better in a single-sex couple or with a single parent.

Quote:

What should it be called, then.

Common sense?

Quote: FrGamble

I would congratulate them and give thanks for the new life that is their child. I would pray for their success as parents and do anything I could to help them. However, if they asked me if I thought their child should have a father I would say yes. If they asked me that all things being equal a child would do better with a mom and a dad I would say yes.

Point blank: If they asked you whether they should give up their child to a straight couple, what would you say?