Was Jesus God?

Anal sex and/or oral sex is not natural, EB. Just because it feels good does not make it "natural". There are unnamed other places you can put your penis too where it feels good, EB, such as sheep, goats, Horses, large dogs, sleeping children, holes in trees, dead people, and so on and so forth. I'm sure you would agree our bodies were not made to have sex with those animals, people and objects either, just because it feels "natural".

Of course FrGamble's definition of natural sex is "intercourse" which can only happen between man and woman. I would agree with this definition. But we're all getting worked up in the definition of an adjective. I would argument that like "sin", "natural" doesn't exist.

I would also argue that what goes on in a committed relationship borne out of love between two people (of any gender) should be the least of the church's concerns. Why do we get so worked up over sex?

There are far worse things going on affecting our society that are against biblical teachings that the church should be talking about.

Quote: boymimbo

Why do we get so worked up over sex?

There are far worse things going on affecting our society that are against biblical teachings that the church should be talking about.

It is very true that in the Gospels Jesus is not overly concerned about sex practices. He is much more concerned about how we treat one another and about religious hypocrisy. He eats dinner and hangs out with prostitutes and He forgives the woman caught in adultery asking if anyone is without sin let him cast the first stone.

I agree that there are far worse things going on affecting our society than homosexuals having sex.

Quote: FrGamble

It has absolutely nothing to do with any group being inferior to another.

Do you know what an analogy is?

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I admit the language is clumsy, "unnatural" has too much of a negative connotation as does "intrinsically disordered" which is the language the Catechism uses.

How did you miss "freaks"?

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The simple point is that our bodies were not made to have sex with members of our own gender.

Our bodies were not made for an awful lot of things our bodies do every day. No one seems to condemn such things, because there is no prejudice against, say, running sprints, lifting large weights, traveling in space, jumping off airplanes, controlling machines for hours on end, and more.

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That is where the unnatural or disordered language comes from,

You keep missing "freaks."

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but it carries with it no pejorative or special case that makes it worse than any other disordered tendency we have for example fornication, greed, power, or towards violence.

So a man having sex with his husband is as bad as a man beating someone to a pulp.

No, I don't see any prejudice there.

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As boymimbo points out we are all disordered and we need God to help us become ordered, or virtuous again and that goes for heterosexuals as well as homosexuals and anyone.

I think Christians are delusional and demented and would really benefit from psychotherapy.

By "delusional" and "demented" I mean nothing negative. these are just the terms I use. And almost everyone would benefit from psychotherapy, so recommending it for Christians casts no aspersions at all.

And if you believe that, I have a bridge I'm willing to sell cheap.

Sigh. I read this and just laugh because clearly, Nareed, you are so far into the belief that the church is evil that nothing that Fr (or anyone else) says will sway you.

Obviously I don't see it that way. Of course the money given pays salaries. Church is a business. It also pays for very beneficial missions such as giving money to the homeless, sending people on building projects locally and internationally (our missions), etc. Our ministers or its staff do not lead lavish lives. Our church is pretty simply and not ornate. Still it could do more, like open its doors to the homeless at night and provide other meaningful services.

As for the bible, it is what it is. As clergy, you are bound to it, and of course certain passages are subject to interpretation, but most churches have a governing body so it is the people in the body that make decisions on what the bible means and what policies are on certain lifestyles and habits.

Churches who put up religion before its people are in trouble because the clergy becomes righteous and the congregation becomes hypocritical. It should always be about people first, and religion second. Our church's motto is "come as you are" and let the music and words speak to you.

Quote: boymimbo

Anal sex and/or oral sex is not natural, EB.

C'mon, be honest, you read that in a book.
Don't believe everything you read. Do you
know at one time nobody ate tomatoes
because they were thought to be poison?
Even it Italy. Gradually the real truth came
out. Don't believe everything you hear,
either.

Quote: boymimbo

Sigh. I read this and just laugh because clearly, Nareed, you are so far into the belief that the church is evil that nothing that Fr (or anyone else) says will sway you. .

The Church isn't totally evil, they do lots
of good works to cover their evilness.
But it's double edged sword, the Church,
smart people stay as far away from it
as they can.

Quote: boymimbo

Sigh. I read this and just laugh because clearly, Nareed, you are so far into the belief that the church is evil that nothing that Fr (or anyone else) says will sway you.

I take a different view. Even when something is not practicing evil, once you get into "magical thinking" you could potentially end up anywhere.

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Magical thinking is the attribution of causal relationships between actions and events which seemingly cannot be justified by reason and observation. In religion, folk religion, and superstitious beliefs, the correlation posited is often between religious ritual, prayer, sacrifice, or the observance of a taboo, and an expected benefit or recompense.

When anything is possible due to a new magical thought or interpretation, any evil can be justified.

Will certain religions always remain benign? Christians and Buddhists have both been violent. Hindus as well. Islam is just the feature at the moment.

If an inspired message comes again (such as what started the Mormons) who knows where it leads.

So, I reject all of it on that basis, even if some of it is good.

Quote: rxwine

When anything is possible due to a new magical thought or interpretation, any evil can be justified.
So, I reject all of it on that basis, even if some of it is good.

Exactly! What a great post. Religion does
some good so we don't notice their evil.
Their magical thinking cannot stand anymore.
Enough, already.

If humanity is to have any future, religion has
to be abandoned. And it's happening, secularism
is taking hold worldwide. We won't tolerate
the hypocrites of religion any longer, enough
is enough. Peddle you hate disguised as love
somewhere else.

Quote: Evenbob

Really? Those parts certainly fit awfully well
into those other parts of the anatomy and
sure feel good while they're there. Doesn't
feel unnatural at all when it's happening.

I've never had sex with a man, but that kind
of sex with a woman uses the same orifices.
Men pay for sex like that, not because it's
unnatural, but because it IS natural and
feels so damn good.

Have you ever considered that men have to pay for it because it is unnatural and because it is so it does not feel good to the woman?

Quote: Evenbob

C'mon, be honest, you read that in a book.
Don't believe everything you read. Do you
know at one time nobody ate tomatoes
because they were thought to be poison?
Even it Italy. Gradually the real truth came
out. Don't believe everything you hear,
either.

Naw, I came up with that myself. And I love oral sex too, don't feel a shred of guilt about it.