Pope Francis

May 24th, 2018 at 8:54:35 PM permalink
FrGamble
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 67
Posts: 7596
Quote: Evenbob
Meaningless words that give the Church
an excuse to do whatever it likes to
whoever it likes.


Just wondering why the Church determining the nature of its Sacraments is so upsetting to you?

Quote:
as always happens when there's
nothing but hot air holding something
together.


Yeah, this makes a lot of sense considering the Catholic Church is the largest denomination of the largest religion in the world and has been around for two millennia. As Jesus said, "the gates of hell will not prevail against the Church." You can lie and misconstrue the truth all you want, you've already lost.
“It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” (
May 24th, 2018 at 9:15:39 PM permalink
Evenbob
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 146
Posts: 25010
Quote: FrGamble
Just wondering why the Church determining the nature of its Sacraments is so upsetting to you?


You make a rule, blame it on god,
and throw up your arms like it's
written in stone when you yourselves
wrote it. In truth you can change it
anytime you like.

Quote:
has been around for two millennia.


During 95% of that time you were
the only game in town and could
do whatever you liked to whoever
you liked. That's all changed now,
and it's been going downhill ever
since. Just look at the pedophile
scandals. The Church got away with
molesting young boys for a thousand
years, now they can't. There is no
way they would have self policed
it, they never did in the past. They
would just move a criminal priest
to a new parish where he would
start all over molesting a new group
of boys.

All the bishops in an entire country
resign, that's not an indication of
a healthy organization. It's the sign
of one rotting internally and crumbling
as we watch.
If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.
May 24th, 2018 at 9:53:46 PM permalink
FrGamble
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 67
Posts: 7596
Oh Bob, where do you get your made-up history? It wasn't until the 4th century that Christianity was legal. In the colonies Catholics couldn't worship in public or hold office. In our own country we were a persecuted minority and still today it seems like anti-Catholicism is the last acceptable prejudice. You are living and breathing proof. We can talk about the French Revolution or Dachu. We can look at the Communist countries still killing Christians today. There have been many more martyrs in recent centuries than in the past. You really don't seem to know what you are talking about, why don't you give it a rest.

I will say that you are right the bishops of Chile resigning is an epic unprecedented mess and the recent Church scandals are devastating. But if you know history, which you don't, then you would know we have been through a lot worse.
“It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” (
May 25th, 2018 at 12:16:03 AM permalink
rxwine
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 188
Posts: 18631
In my opinion Jesus example of washing someone's feet says more about whether you should accept women as apostles. He didn't act above a person, he acted as servant. He defended a woman from being stoned by pointing out no one throwing stones was any better.

Separate but equal is a principle rejected by blacks in America for good reason. We'll give you this co-position and pretend it's co equal. Clearly no nun is serving as Pope. Why not? That's clearly not equal.
You believe in an invisible god, and dismiss people who say they are trans? Really?
May 25th, 2018 at 1:35:35 AM permalink
Evenbob
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 146
Posts: 25010
Quote: FrGamble
But if you know history, which you don't, then you would know we have been through a lot worse.


So you just admitted there are things
worse than even I know about? Wow.

Some day it will dawn on you this
church has nothing to do with any
god. Quit and meditate under a
tree, you'll get more enlightenment
than you ever would in the Church.
You say you want the truth, but you
really don't..
If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.
May 25th, 2018 at 4:55:29 AM permalink
Dalex64
Member since: Mar 8, 2014
Threads: 3
Posts: 3687
Quote: FrGamble
Again B does not follow from A.


I thought the reason we were given for why there were no women priests was because Jesus had no female deciples therefore there shall be no female priests.

That is also B following from A, using an observation from the Bible (not a direct statement or rule) as justification.
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts." Daniel Patrick Moynihan
May 25th, 2018 at 10:12:29 AM permalink
FrGamble
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 67
Posts: 7596
Quote: Dalex64
I thought the reason we were given for why there were no women priests was because Jesus had no female deciples therefore there shall be no female priests.

That is also B following from A, using an observation from the Bible (not a direct statement or rule) as justification.


I thought we had been talking about more reasons for Jesus' decision than just choosing all men. You keep going back to the simplistic because the Bible tells me so. Without more behind that answer I find it lacking.
“It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” (
May 25th, 2018 at 11:29:47 AM permalink
Evenbob
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 146
Posts: 25010
Quote: Dalex64
I thought the reason we were given for why there were no women priests was because Jesus had no female deciples therefore there shall be no female priests..


That's what FrG says. This is what other
Church authorities say:

"He (the priest) plays the part of Christ and Christ works through the priest in the action of the Eucharistic sacrifice. As a man his sexuality matters because he brings to this action of redemption the fact that he is not only a human, but like Christ, he is a man. Women participate in the redemptive sacrifice as did the Blessed Virgin–as women and as mothers. For a woman to be a priest is therefore as impossible as it would be for a man to be a mother. I fully understand and accept that this teaching may be offensive to some and incomprehensible to others. I also fully understand that many would consider this teaching out of date or even oppressive to women. Nevertheless, this is the basic theological and anthropological model which the church in her history and teaching supports and promotes. The Catholic teaching is clear: The Church does not have the authority to ordain women as priests.”

It's the old catch 22: It's out of our
hands, sorry. It's the same tired excuse
used forever against women: The are
inferior because of their sex. So they
can't own property, can't hold office,
can't vote, can't drive a car, can't be a
priest or a rabbi, on and on. The excuse
that Jesus had only male disciples is
just a flimsy smoke screen to hide the
ancient prejudice against women.
If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.
May 25th, 2018 at 11:50:51 AM permalink
Wizard
Administrator
Member since: Oct 23, 2012
Threads: 239
Posts: 6095
My reading of I Timothy makes it clear women shouldn't have authority over men in the church.

Quote: I Timothy 2:11,12
Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.


Then again, the bible also says women are supposed to wear hats in church, and that rule is seldom enforced.
Knowledge is Good -- Emil Faber
May 25th, 2018 at 12:02:21 PM permalink
FrGamble
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 67
Posts: 7596
It is a miracle, Evenbob actually presented an excellent quote that must have finally found a decent source.

But then he goes and ruins it with some ridiculous non sensical opinions presented as fact. It is still Evenbob after all.
“It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” (