Pope Francis
May 24th, 2018 at 8:54:35 PM permalink | |
FrGamble Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 67 Posts: 7596 |
Just wondering why the Church determining the nature of its Sacraments is so upsetting to you?
Yeah, this makes a lot of sense considering the Catholic Church is the largest denomination of the largest religion in the world and has been around for two millennia. As Jesus said, "the gates of hell will not prevail against the Church." You can lie and misconstrue the truth all you want, you've already lost. “It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” ( |
May 24th, 2018 at 9:15:39 PM permalink | |
Evenbob Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 146 Posts: 25010 |
You make a rule, blame it on god, and throw up your arms like it's written in stone when you yourselves wrote it. In truth you can change it anytime you like.
During 95% of that time you were the only game in town and could do whatever you liked to whoever you liked. That's all changed now, and it's been going downhill ever since. Just look at the pedophile scandals. The Church got away with molesting young boys for a thousand years, now they can't. There is no way they would have self policed it, they never did in the past. They would just move a criminal priest to a new parish where he would start all over molesting a new group of boys. All the bishops in an entire country resign, that's not an indication of a healthy organization. It's the sign of one rotting internally and crumbling as we watch. If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose. |
May 24th, 2018 at 9:53:46 PM permalink | |
FrGamble Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 67 Posts: 7596 | Oh Bob, where do you get your made-up history? It wasn't until the 4th century that Christianity was legal. In the colonies Catholics couldn't worship in public or hold office. In our own country we were a persecuted minority and still today it seems like anti-Catholicism is the last acceptable prejudice. You are living and breathing proof. We can talk about the French Revolution or Dachu. We can look at the Communist countries still killing Christians today. There have been many more martyrs in recent centuries than in the past. You really don't seem to know what you are talking about, why don't you give it a rest. I will say that you are right the bishops of Chile resigning is an epic unprecedented mess and the recent Church scandals are devastating. But if you know history, which you don't, then you would know we have been through a lot worse. “It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” ( |
May 25th, 2018 at 12:16:03 AM permalink | |
rxwine Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 188 Posts: 18631 | In my opinion Jesus example of washing someone's feet says more about whether you should accept women as apostles. He didn't act above a person, he acted as servant. He defended a woman from being stoned by pointing out no one throwing stones was any better. Separate but equal is a principle rejected by blacks in America for good reason. We'll give you this co-position and pretend it's co equal. Clearly no nun is serving as Pope. Why not? That's clearly not equal. You believe in an invisible god, and dismiss people who say they are trans? Really? |
May 25th, 2018 at 1:35:35 AM permalink | |
Evenbob Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 146 Posts: 25010 |
So you just admitted there are things worse than even I know about? Wow. Some day it will dawn on you this church has nothing to do with any god. Quit and meditate under a tree, you'll get more enlightenment than you ever would in the Church. You say you want the truth, but you really don't.. If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose. |
May 25th, 2018 at 4:55:29 AM permalink | |
Dalex64 Member since: Mar 8, 2014 Threads: 3 Posts: 3687 |
I thought the reason we were given for why there were no women priests was because Jesus had no female deciples therefore there shall be no female priests. That is also B following from A, using an observation from the Bible (not a direct statement or rule) as justification. "Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts." Daniel Patrick Moynihan |
May 25th, 2018 at 10:12:29 AM permalink | |
FrGamble Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 67 Posts: 7596 |
I thought we had been talking about more reasons for Jesus' decision than just choosing all men. You keep going back to the simplistic because the Bible tells me so. Without more behind that answer I find it lacking. “It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” ( |
May 25th, 2018 at 11:29:47 AM permalink | |
Evenbob Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 146 Posts: 25010 |
That's what FrG says. This is what other Church authorities say: "He (the priest) plays the part of Christ and Christ works through the priest in the action of the Eucharistic sacrifice. As a man his sexuality matters because he brings to this action of redemption the fact that he is not only a human, but like Christ, he is a man. Women participate in the redemptive sacrifice as did the Blessed Virgin–as women and as mothers. For a woman to be a priest is therefore as impossible as it would be for a man to be a mother. I fully understand and accept that this teaching may be offensive to some and incomprehensible to others. I also fully understand that many would consider this teaching out of date or even oppressive to women. Nevertheless, this is the basic theological and anthropological model which the church in her history and teaching supports and promotes. The Catholic teaching is clear: The Church does not have the authority to ordain women as priests.” It's the old catch 22: It's out of our hands, sorry. It's the same tired excuse used forever against women: The are inferior because of their sex. So they can't own property, can't hold office, can't vote, can't drive a car, can't be a priest or a rabbi, on and on. The excuse that Jesus had only male disciples is just a flimsy smoke screen to hide the ancient prejudice against women. If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose. |
May 25th, 2018 at 11:50:51 AM permalink | |
Wizard Administrator Member since: Oct 23, 2012 Threads: 239 Posts: 6095 | My reading of I Timothy makes it clear women shouldn't have authority over men in the church.
Then again, the bible also says women are supposed to wear hats in church, and that rule is seldom enforced. Knowledge is Good -- Emil Faber |
May 25th, 2018 at 12:02:21 PM permalink | |
FrGamble Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 67 Posts: 7596 | It is a miracle, Evenbob actually presented an excellent quote that must have finally found a decent source. But then he goes and ruins it with some ridiculous non sensical opinions presented as fact. It is still Evenbob after all. “It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” ( |