Gun Control

Quote: PotPie

what an effing pathetic response

there is obviously a problem - so his response is - do nothing - because it's a declining and violent society

that is the mission of a responsible society - to solve problems - not to just say "okay that's the way it is"

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It is illegal to shoot people. What more do you want? For us to be like Mexico where the cartels have guns but the people don't?

Quote: AZDuffman

Should we get rid of cars because people die in car accidents?

It is not "guns" it is "people." You live in a declining and violent society. Quit whining about "guns."

Nobody is forcing you to own one.

We should not get rid of either, but both require a large degree of regulation. Carrying guns in public should be regulated like driving in public (and driving in public needs to be made more challenging).

Every time this topic comes up you bring up cars (which still have a shameful death rate), but it is well established that regulation has lowered death and injuries. Ironically one of the best ways to lower collisions (and something else you complaint about, though one of the most efficient enforcement mechanisms to maintain) is red light cameras.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7473820/
(Also, fun fact, the NIH -and CDC- was banned from doing these kinds of studies on gun violence and regulation until very recently, like a year ago..... so there is limited NIH data on the topic unlike driving....)

Quote: Gandler

We should not get rid of either, but both require a large degree of regulation. Carrying guns in public should be regulated like driving in public (and driving in public needs to be made more challenging).

Every time this topic comes up you bring up cars (which still have a shameful death rate), but it is well established that regulation has lowered death and injuries. Ironically one of the best ways to lower collisions (and something else you complaint about, though one of the most efficient enforcement mechanisms to maintain) is red light cameras.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7473820/
(Also, fun fact, the NIH -and CDC- was banned from doing these kinds of studies on gun violence and regulation until very recently, like a year ago..... so there is limited NIH data on the topic unlike driving....)

Red light cameras are about revenue not safety and are blatantly unconstitutional. The CDC should not be studying gun violence as guns are not a disease.

And we have gun regulation.

Reality is most gun deaths are suicides which can be removed from "gun violence" stats. Most of the rest is people getting shot by someone they know. Then there are people who got shot because they were committing a crime. One like that happened near my house years ago. Guys robbed a store with BB pistols drilled to look like guns. Guy outside sensed something was wrong, I forget but he might have been an off duty cop. His wife was inside with a gun and was going to stop it but a store employee stopped her. So guy runs out with his fake gun and the guy shot him right between the eyes.

I do not call that "gun violence" but "gun control" for the good aim!

So, do not commit suicide and keep away from bad people and your chances of getting hurt or dying from "gun violence" go from exceptionally low to even lower than that.

Quote: AZDuffman

Red light cameras are about revenue not safety and are blatantly unconstitutional. The CDC should not be studying gun violence as guns are not a disease.

And we have gun regulation.

Reality is most gun deaths are suicides which can be removed from "gun violence" stats. Most of the rest is people getting shot by someone they know. Then there are people who got shot because they were committing a crime. One like that happened near my house years ago. Guys robbed a store with BB pistols drilled to look like guns. Guy outside sensed something was wrong, I forget but he might have been an off duty cop. His wife was inside with a gun and was going to stop it but a store employee stopped her. So guy runs out with his fake gun and the guy shot him right between the eyes.

I do not call that "gun violence" but "gun control" for the good aim!

So, do not commit suicide and keep away from bad people and your chances of getting hurt or dying from "gun violence" go from exceptionally low to even
lower than that.

Red Light Cameras are well known to be one of the best traffic safety measures that can be installed overnight (quite literally). And, they pay for themselves (usually companies install and maintain them in exchange for a percentage of revenue so there is zero taxpayer cost). They are blatantly not unconstitutional or they would not be spreading. A red light camera at an intersection can issue many times more tickets than a cop an (even if there was a cop sitting at the intersection all day, which is never the case). Same thing with school zone speed cameras which I would bet you also oppose.

We don't have gun regulations anywhere on the same scale as driving regulations (which are too loose).

About 55% of gun deaths are suicides. But, even that is an interesting subject. Because most suicide attempts that do not involve guns are failed attempts. Almost all that involve guns are successful.
https://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/doi/full/10.1176/appi.ajp.2016.15070854
"Regardless of sex, those using firearms had 140 times the risk of dying on index suicide attempt than those using other methods."

Guns allow a quick and irreversible suicide (unlike poisoning and bleedings which can be reversed with medical intervention). So on suicides alone, there is an interesting debate.

Even putting suicides aside, we have one of the highest gun murders per capita (the highest of developed countries by a long shot). We also have a high rate of mass shootings and workplace shootings, so even if you avoid bad areas, you never know. Also, I think you underestimate how guns can be involved in domestic violence and internal disputes. A fight can very easily escalate if there are guns present.

Quote: Gandler

Red Light Cameras are well known to be one of the best traffic safety measures that can be installed overnight (quite literally). And, they pay for themselves (usually companies install and maintain them in exchange for a percentage of revenue so there is zero taxpayer cost). They are blatantly not unconstitutional or they would not be spreading. A red light camera at an intersection can issue many times more tickets than a cop an (even if there was a cop sitting at the intersection all day, which is never the case). Same thing with school zone speed cameras which I would bet you also oppose.

Which just proves they are about revenue and not safety. Sorry, but they are unconstitutional. The Constitution gives me the right to confront my accuser in court. I do not get to do that with a red light camera. I met a guy who worked for a company installing them once. He explained that a cop looks at the picture to be a "witness." How on earth does that pass Constitutional muster?

And if you think that the government will not do unconstitutional things I have a bridge to sell you.

People who like the red light cameras seem to be the same type who love living in a HOA that strictly enforces rules with fines. People who loved the mask rules during the china virus. IOW, people who like being controlled.

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We don't have gun regulations anywhere on the same scale as driving regulations (which are too loose).

Because we do not need as many. Driving is far more complex an activity, also a privilege not a right.

Quote:

Even putting suicides aside, we have one of the highest gun murders per capita (the highest of developed countries by a long shot). We also have a high rate of mass shootings and workplace shootings, so even if you avoid bad areas, you never know. Also, I think you underestimate how guns can be involved in domestic violence and internal disputes. A fight can very easily escalate if there are guns present.

Yes, as I said, because you are in a sickly collapsing and violent society. "You never know" about most things. But you have to live life. What you are asking is for your freedoms to be taken away so you can feel more secure against a threat that would probably not happen to you if you lived to be 200 years old. Better to just take precautions, because after guns are banned the same people worrying about gun violence will be convinced of another threat so they beg for more of their rights to be taken away.

In VA all you had to do was show up in court and the judge asked the officer "can you place him in the car?", the cop says no [at least at the time your face was not shown] , and the red light ticket case was instantly thrown out. I am a personal witness to this. You are not required to give evidence against yourself and weren't asked to. A moving violation was never just against the vehicle alone

Now .... I used the past tense because there is so little regard for the constitution anymore it's possible it has changed.

The only change to law here on red light cameras that I see is the Florida Supreme court ruled that districts who didn't have a way to challenge the ticket must provide one.

Quote: AZDuffman

Which just proves they are about revenue and not safety. Sorry, but they are unconstitutional. The Constitution gives me the right to confront my accuser in court. I do not get to do that with a red light camera. I met a guy who worked for a company installing them once. He explained that a cop looks at the picture to be a "witness." How on earth does that pass Constitutional muster?

And if you think that the government will not do unconstitutional things I have a bridge to sell you.

People who like the red light cameras seem to be the same type who love living in a HOA that strictly enforces rules with fines. People who loved the mask rules during the china virus. IOW, people who like being controlled.



Because we do not need as many. Driving is far more complex an activity, also a privilege not a right.



Yes, as I said, because you are in a sickly collapsing and violent society. "You never know" about most things. But you have to live life. What you are asking is for your freedoms to be taken away so you can feel more secure against a threat that would probably not happen to you if you lived to be 200 years old. Better to just take precautions, because after guns are banned the same people worrying about gun violence will be convinced of another threat so they beg for more of their rights to be taken away.

You can confront your accuser in Court, in most (probably all) States a cop or traffic engineer has to sit and manually issue all tickets (review the video segments that get flagged for potential violations). And, you just receive your ticket through the mail, with the ability to arrange a court date. I like red light tickets because they are fiscally sound and reduce traffic fatalities. Do I like getting tickets in the mail? Obviously no. But, do I like their effect on society? Of course. Same with school zone speed cameras.

If we are living in a "sick and collapsing society" how is it good that we let even more questionable people buy guns and not receive penalties for illegally carrying?

I don't hate guns (actually for the left some would probably call me too pro-gun). But, it is simply too easy for people with zero training to buy and carry a gun. The fact that any idiot can walk into a pawnshop and walk out with a loaded revolver in their waistband perfectly legally is absurd. Just like driving in public, if you want to carry in public there should be licensing. And, it should include a mandatory training course and exams (exemptions for military). I don't feel safe being surrounded by "good guys with guns" when I know that many have never actually even fired them.

Quote: Gandler

You can confront your accuser in Court, in most (probably all) States a cop or traffic engineer has to sit and manually issue all tickets (review the video segments that get flagged for potential violations). And, you just receive your ticket through the mail, with the ability to arrange a court date. I like red light tickets because they are fiscally sound and reduce traffic fatalities. Do I like getting tickets in the mail? Obviously no. But, do I like their effect on society? Of course. Same with school zone speed cameras.

Your "accuser" is a machine. No cop actually witnessed anything. It is all about revenue. How anyone other than a money-grubbing politician can like them is beyond me. But again, I figure it is the same kind of people who like living in an HOA where they patrol over every little rule.

Quote:

If we are living in a "sick and collapsing society" how is it good that we let even more questionable people buy guns and not receive penalties for illegally carrying?

Legal carry is a good thing, because the bad guys carry anyways. I'd rather have good guys with guns around than everyone unarmed when a bad guy with a gun shows up. It is good to be able to protect yourself in this society.

Quote:

I don't feel safe being surrounded by "good guys with guns" when I know that many have never actually even fired them.

That is because you want "safe" above anything and everything else. I gather that you would prefer to live in a less than free society as long as you thought it was "safe." News flash--there is no "safe." There is always risk. Take away guns and people attack other people with knives. My advice for you is quit watching so much sensationalized news and get on with life.

Quote: AZDuffman

Your "accuser" is a machine. No cop actually witnessed anything. It is all about revenue. How anyone other than a money-grubbing politician can like them is beyond me. But again, I figure it is the same kind of people who like living in an HOA where they patrol over every little rule.



Legal carry is a good thing, because the bad guys carry anyways. I'd rather have good guys with guns around than everyone unarmed when a bad guy with a gun shows up. It is good to be able to protect yourself in this society.



That is because you want "safe" above anything and everything else. I gather that you would prefer to live in a less than free society as long as you thought it was "safe." News flash--there is no "safe." There is always risk. Take away guns and people attack other people with knives. My advice for you is quit watching so much sensationalized news and get on with life.

So is your opinion law enforcment can only make arrests and issue citations on crimes that they personally witnessed in the flesh? They can't examine documents or survliance systems?

This would make mail fraud and pretty much all financial crimes impossible to prosecute.....