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June 16th, 2020 at 5:06:29 PM permalink
Mission146
Administrator
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 23
Posts: 4147
Quote: kenarman
If you can't read a map how are you going to find your favorite store the first time in a mall.


Maybe that’s why indoor malls are falling out of favor. You guys might be on to something. Join the Boy Scouts; Save the Malls!
"War is the remedy that our enemies have chosen..let us give them all they want." William T. Sherman
June 16th, 2020 at 6:29:07 PM permalink
AZDuffman
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 135
Posts: 18136
Quote: Mission146
Math also pretty much accomplishes the same thing. It all pretty much comes down to deductive reasoning and problem-solving skills.


To a smaller extent. At some point you have to get your head out of the books and to hard skills.

Quote:
Those statements mean precisely nothing. Do you think I need a God to know it's generally wrong to kill someone?


Actually yes, I do. As you are an atheist if man said "Murder is OK if you have a good reason" you would probably follow that. Right and wrong comes from something higher than man. If murder was an accepted thing you would probably accept it. Same as you now accept that men can be made into women because man is telling you they can. Years ago man did not say this. Your belief they can shows you would follow what man says above all.

Quote:
If you say so. Maybe you should go to an OWS protest, teach those people how to build a fire and then tell them you have now solved all of their problems.

On the other hand, don't. It seems like the general population knows how to set fires pretty well, of late.


Waste of time. OWS is too lazy to learn to do for themselves.
The President is a fink.
June 16th, 2020 at 6:56:23 PM permalink
Mission146
Administrator
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 23
Posts: 4147
Quote: AZDuffman


Actually yes, I do. As you are an atheist if man said "Murder is OK if you have a good reason" you would probably follow that. Right and wrong comes from something higher than man. If murder was an accepted thing you would probably accept it. Same as you now accept that men can be made into women because man is telling you they can. Years ago man did not say this. Your belief they can shows you would follow what man says above all.


First of all, at least in this country, most men say no such thing, which is why it's a crime. In other words, we declare an action wrong and, on a societal level, we set up Earthy consequences for a person doing that action and getting caught. No God required. There are many things that are, "Accepted," that I do not personally accept.

Also, if I have to tell you another time that my stance on sexual identity stems from the fact that I don't give a s*** what other people do as long as it doesn't affect me---and is no way based whatsoever on my unfounded and non-expert opinions on biology, it'll probably be the 972nd time I've said it.

So, it's not that I accept it as a matter of science, or even really that I accept it at all. It's just that, as a non-religious person, I tend not to worry about the affairs of others when they are none of my business. If you want me to start referring to you as, "She/her," I will, because it really has virtually no impact on me at all.

Now, your notion is that God created Adam and Eve, if that's the one we're talking about, so then we have an oral history that is passed down from Millennia upon Millenia upon Millenia...and SOMEHOW certain denominations of Christianity have the underlying oral history exactly right? How many thousands upon thousands upon thousands of years passed from the dawn of man until there was even a writing system?

Oh, but we passed it down orally.

Yeah, sure. I'll tell you a story about something that happened three years ago and something about the way I tell it won't be exactly right because memory is fallible. If I tell it to you again in three years, something else about it will have changed (in the story) even though I'll be telling it as I remember it and as I think that it happened.

What do you have, few hundred religions before you start even getting into denominations? And, the Christians got it right? If you really think about the religion in the scope of all of the possible religions---not to mention the most likely case of no God---it's a really funny thing to believe.

The religions exist as a mechanism of social control because the laws were insufficient at various times. They exist for no other purpose than to maintain the social order by way of indoctrination and fear. They do nothing else. WHY do you think there was a separation of Church and State? Because they didn't want to create a country where religion could eventually come to essentially be running the thing.

And, for someone who seems to be concerned about human biology as you do, religion has attempted to stymie science at virtually every turn throughout the centuries. Why? Because humanity, which is to say those of humanity who are intelligent, might gain enough knowledge to finally prove the religions conclusively wrong.

And, even if you were right, which you're not---religion doesn't even always successfully do what you say it does. Look at the Catholic Church cover-ups, where was your higher power dictating right and wrong, then? It must have been the seventh day, he takes that one off, right? The very fact that supposedly devout religious people do anything of that nature automatically disproves your notion that religion is needed to dictate morality, because it isn't. And, when it tries, it usually does a poor job of it.

But, let me guess, you're going to say that they were secretly Atheists or just not that religious, right? Because no individual person from any group can possibly do anything wrong if it is a group that you identify with. Do I have that about right?
"War is the remedy that our enemies have chosen..let us give them all they want." William T. Sherman
June 16th, 2020 at 9:10:44 PM permalink
Evenbob
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 146
Posts: 25010
Quote: AZDuffman
Right and wrong comes from something higher than man..


Right and wrong is a human concept
that's unknown in nature. It doesn't
come from anywhere. It evolves
in society. What is productive for
society is good, what isn't is bad.
Killing your neighbor because he
made you mad is wrong, killing
a enemy soldier is right. Both
are killings, society decides the
right and wrong, not some higher
power.

In Dark Ages England, cannibalism
in the back country was rampant.
If you wandered into someone's
territory as an unknown stranger,
you would probably end up as
dinner. They saw nothing morally
wrong with this, it was an
accepted practice in that society.

Humans living together invented
morality or they wouldn't have
lasted long as a group. They also
invented guilt for wrong actions
to keep you from doing it again.
Guilt is something else that doesn't
exist on it's own in nature.
If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.
June 16th, 2020 at 10:07:26 PM permalink
petroglyph
Member since: Aug 3, 2014
Threads: 25
Posts: 6227
Quote: Evenbob
Right and wrong is a human concept
that's unknown in nature. It doesn't
come from anywhere. It evolves
in society. What is productive for
society is good, what isn't is bad.
Killing your neighbor because he
made you mad is wrong, killing
a enemy soldier is right. Both
are killings, society decides the
right and wrong, not some higher
power.

In Dark Ages England, cannibalism
in the back country was rampant.
If you wandered into someone's
territory as an unknown stranger,
you would probably end up as
dinner. They saw nothing morally
wrong with this, it was an
accepted practice in that society.

Humans living together invented
morality or they wouldn't have
lasted long as a group. They also
invented guilt for wrong actions
to keep you from doing it again.
Guilt is something else that doesn't
exist on it's own in nature.
I think in it's rawest form, it all evolves from property rights.
The last official act of any government is to loot the treasury. GW
June 16th, 2020 at 10:54:22 PM permalink
rxwine
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 188
Posts: 18629
Quote: petroglyph
I think in it's rawest form, it all evolves from property rights.


You can try to construct a society using different concepts. Like making killing each other at will perfectly okay. You don't need a higher authority to examine the structure of such an idea to figure out it ends up not working out for you or anyone else very well. The strongest may survive, but he will sleep with one eye open on a growing heap of bodies and paranoia.

On the other hand, some people may start to believe if everyone doesn't bow to the Sun on Thursday, there will be a drought or food shortage. This f's up the natural design by inputting nonsense.
You believe in an invisible god, and dismiss people who say they are trans? Really?
June 16th, 2020 at 10:55:03 PM permalink
Shrek
Member since: Aug 13, 2019
Threads: 6
Posts: 1635
God I hope the libbies keep focusing on this lol...........

Late-night hosts mock Trump over 'Ramp-gate'

Here Trump is acting presidential every day trying to solve the country's problems, yet all the libbies care about is this. 🤣🤣🤣
June 16th, 2020 at 11:47:13 PM permalink
Evenbob
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 146
Posts: 25010
Quote: petroglyph
I think in it's rawest form, it all evolves from property rights.


A clan holding the land they lived on
needed rules for getting along with
other clans. Ethics and morality evolved
over time. The problem with looking
at our history is, it only goes back a
few thousand years. Our actual history
of living together goes back 10's of
thousands of years. Lots of time to
figure what's needed for a society to
live with themselves.
If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.
June 17th, 2020 at 1:23:57 AM permalink
petroglyph
Member since: Aug 3, 2014
Threads: 25
Posts: 6227
Quote: Evenbob
A clan holding the land they lived on
needed rules for getting along with
other clans. Ethics and morality evolved
over time. The problem with looking
at our history is, it only goes back a
few thousand years. Our actual history
of living together goes back 10's of
thousands of years. Lots of time to
figure what's needed for a society to
live with themselves.
Property rights, or the thought one owns what they possess goes back forever.
The last official act of any government is to loot the treasury. GW
June 17th, 2020 at 1:49:50 AM permalink
Evenbob
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 146
Posts: 25010
Quote: petroglyph
Property rights, or the thought one owns what they possess goes back forever.


Most Native Americans were odd about
land, they were mostly nomads. Reason
was, they were terrible polluters. They
would make an area unlivable in just
a few months. Piles of rotting hides
of animals, open pits of human waste.
They never tried to invent anything
to make their lives better, they just
moved to another pristine spot. They
never made it out of the Stone Age.
If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.