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June 16th, 2020 at 6:37:43 AM permalink
Gandler
Member since: Aug 15, 2019
Threads: 27
Posts: 4236
Quote: SOOPOO
Quote: Gandler
Quote: AZDuffman
Quote: Gandler


I am an Eagle Scout and well aware of the incidents.

The vast majority were straight they were married with kids (hence why they were scoutmasters)......


Gays often have wives and even kids. Called a "Beard." That they abused males makes them gay by definition.



Then why were gays so against the ban? They would not be becoming scoutmasters anyhow by that logic.



You claim they are straight. But a guy going with another male is by definition homosexual/gay. It is science! Why do you deny science?

Rock Hudson had many love scenes with females. He was still gay. Gays will go with women when it suits their needs.



That's not how it works. Pedophiles are gender neutral in their victims. Abusing a boy does not make somebody "gay" it makes them a sex offender. Again, they tend to be opportunistic.


Abuse rates are way down. Practically zero, AFTER the gay ban was lifted. So yes, correlation does not prove causation, but more gays = less abuse.

We are against the ban because gay couples can have adopted kids and if they are married they should have a right to be Scoutmasters.



Again molesting somebody does not make you gay or straight, that is just an absurd statement and not grounded in any science.

Here is a hard stat: Repeal of gay ban= decrease in abuse.


The conspiracy that gay men get married just to join BSA is absurd...


Happily, I never did research on this subject... but.... when you say "Pedophiles are gender neutral", I find that hard to believe! I would have thought there would be 3 types... those that molest boys, those that molest girls, and those that molest both. Kind of how there are straights, gays, and bi-sexuals? Are you trying to say that ALL pedophiles will molest whatever is available to them?

As far as 'the majority are straight', what about the growing number of men and women who 'come out as gay' after spending the first 4 or 5 decades of their life in a stright relationship, with no gay activity ? So were they gay the whole time? Meaning that once the 'straight' man molests the 8 year old boy, he is no longer straight? I think that is what AZ is referring to.

The silliest thing you write is trying to attach a causal relationship to the BSA allowing gays and molestation rates being down. How about the honest answer, in that now parents and their kids are much more aware of the possibility of bad scoutmasters, priests, teachers, etc.., and the kids are actively taught what to look for and report?

Also, I have no idea if this is true.... but can anyone be a scoutmaster? Do you have to have a child of yours in the group? Can you have had a DUI conviction and still be a scoutmaster?



I did say correltation does not equal causation. Obviously that is not the primary reason. But, it goes to show gay bans do nothing on their own to stop pedophiles.... So supporting gay bans now (well as of yesterday they can't legally anyway thankfully....) is just silly.....

I have said in the other thread there are multiple factors including background checks, and now background checking to people who were grandfathered in before (exempt from taking one).
Also, the 2 and 2 rules ( Two Leaders and 2 Scouts at all times, no scout is allowed to be alone with 1 leader, must be 2 and 2)....

Never once did I claim gay men be around were the sole reason for the decline in pedophiles...

But, yes, calling somebody gay, who has been straight there whole life and then molests a boy is insane....

Pedophiles and pedophiles, I dont care if they are gay or straight they should be in jail.... But, there is no correleation between being gay and being a pedophile, that is another stereotype you guys like to push with no evidence...
June 16th, 2020 at 7:00:53 AM permalink
AZDuffman
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 135
Posts: 18136
Quote: Gandler


Pedophiles and pedophiles, I dont care if they are gay or straight they should be in jail.... But, there is no correleation between being gay and being a pedophile, that is another stereotype you guys like to push with no evidence...


The evidence is that they are a male trying to have sex with another male. That is the definition of homosexual/gay.

Is there something special that happens biologically between age 17 and age 18?
The President is a fink.
June 16th, 2020 at 7:01:53 AM permalink
odiousgambit
Member since: Oct 28, 2012
Threads: 154
Posts: 5055
It'd be going too far if I was running a program involving kids to outright ban gays, but if someone else did I wouldn't judge them. In a program that didn't ban them, you'd want sturdy background checks and follow-up.

My view is colored by reading books and watching programs about serial killers. The ones that are pedophiles seem to learn somewhere that the 'thing to do' is get close to kids with some youth program that a school, church, or government runs. I don't think you can be too careful, PC ideas about hurting gay's careers in those fields notwithstanding. It's almost automatically a dubious career choice for men who don't have their own children in the program.

The whole business makes me sick, thus my participation in this thread which may seem like trolling ~ I already said "sorry"
I'm Still Standing, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah [it's an old guy chant for me]
June 16th, 2020 at 7:32:16 AM permalink
Mission146
Administrator
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 23
Posts: 4147
Quote: Gandler

I am an Eagle Scout and well aware of the incidents.

The vast majority were straight they were married with kids (hence why they were scoutmasters)......

Random gay men with no children don't randomly apply to be Scoutmasters.... Generally Scoutmasters in a troop have kids in that troop.... There are some exceptions where people stay after their kids leave and just continue to do it, but generally that is the case....

Also, all of these historic incidents occurred when BSA has a No-Gay policy.... So even if your hypothesis was correct (its not) a No-Gay policy does nothing to decrease the level of pedophiles. It goes back to what I said, most pedophiles are straight, and opportunistic, they took advantage of boys because they were easy targets when they were alone....


Don't the Boy Scouts have some, "Belief in God," requirement and aren't many of them tied to local churches in one way or another? Just curious.
"War is the remedy that our enemies have chosen..let us give them all they want." William T. Sherman
June 16th, 2020 at 7:37:56 AM permalink
Gandler
Member since: Aug 15, 2019
Threads: 27
Posts: 4236
Quote: Mission146
Quote: Gandler

I am an Eagle Scout and well aware of the incidents.

The vast majority were straight they were married with kids (hence why they were scoutmasters)......

Random gay men with no children don't randomly apply to be Scoutmasters.... Generally Scoutmasters in a troop have kids in that troop.... There are some exceptions where people stay after their kids leave and just continue to do it, but generally that is the case....

Also, all of these historic incidents occurred when BSA has a No-Gay policy.... So even if your hypothesis was correct (its not) a No-Gay policy does nothing to decrease the level of pedophiles. It goes back to what I said, most pedophiles are straight, and opportunistic, they took advantage of boys because they were easy targets when they were alone....


Don't the Boy Scouts have some, "Belief in God," requirement and aren't many of them tied to local churches in one way or another? Just curious.


Yes, atheists are not allowed.

However, it was never an issue in my troop (very liberal area).

I never remeber anything religion related (other than our primary meeting place being a church).

The Mormins actually became heavy Funders of BSA in the late 70s, and in return they required BSA ban gays and ban atheists.

The Mormons stopped their funding a couple years ago (one of many reason BSA is bankrupt).
June 16th, 2020 at 7:38:04 AM permalink
Mission146
Administrator
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 23
Posts: 4147
Quote: AZDuffman
The evidence is that they are a male trying to have sex with another male. That is the definition of homosexual/gay.

Is there something special that happens biologically between age 17 and age 18?


An older adult having sex with a seventeen year old would be highly questionable and objectionable, (though legal in some states) but would not make them a pedophile.

Knowing the clinical definitions of words would really help you have this conversation.
"War is the remedy that our enemies have chosen..let us give them all they want." William T. Sherman
June 16th, 2020 at 7:38:04 AM permalink
Mission146
Administrator
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 23
Posts: 4147
Duplicate
"War is the remedy that our enemies have chosen..let us give them all they want." William T. Sherman
June 16th, 2020 at 7:39:39 AM permalink
Mission146
Administrator
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 23
Posts: 4147
Quote: Gandler


Yes, atheists are not allowed.

However, it was never an issue in my troop (very liberal area).

I never remeber anything religion related (other than our primary meeting place being a church).

The Mormins actually became heavy Funders of BSA in the late 70s, and in return they required BSA ban gays and ban atheists.

The Mormons stopped their funding a couple years ago (one of many reason BSA is bankrupt).


Thank you. I was just curious as to how deep the religion connection ran. Pedophilia running rampant in the organization is hardly a surprise.
"War is the remedy that our enemies have chosen..let us give them all they want." William T. Sherman
June 16th, 2020 at 7:44:52 AM permalink
AZDuffman
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 135
Posts: 18136
Quote: Gandler
Quote: Mission146
Quote: Gandler

I am an Eagle Scout and well aware of the incidents.

The vast majority were straight they were married with kids (hence why they were scoutmasters)......

Random gay men with no children don't randomly apply to be Scoutmasters.... Generally Scoutmasters in a troop have kids in that troop.... There are some exceptions where people stay after their kids leave and just continue to do it, but generally that is the case....

Also, all of these historic incidents occurred when BSA has a No-Gay policy.... So even if your hypothesis was correct (its not) a No-Gay policy does nothing to decrease the level of pedophiles. It goes back to what I said, most pedophiles are straight, and opportunistic, they took advantage of boys because they were easy targets when they were alone....


Don't the Boy Scouts have some, "Belief in God," requirement and aren't many of them tied to local churches in one way or another? Just curious.







Yes, atheists are not allowed.

However, it was never an issue in my troop (very liberal area).

I never remeber anything religion related (other than our primary meeting place being a church).

The Mormins actually became heavy Funders of BSA in the late 70s, and in return they required BSA ban gays and ban atheists.

The Mormons stopped their funding a couple years ago (one of many reason BSA is bankrupt).



Isn't belief in God part of the oath? It was in the Cub Scouts.
The President is a fink.
June 16th, 2020 at 7:45:39 AM permalink
AZDuffman
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 135
Posts: 18136
Quote: Mission146


Knowing the clinical definitions of words would really help you have this conversation.


You mean like "homosexual" meaning prefers sex with their own sex not the opposite sex?
The President is a fink.