Original Sin?
April 25th, 2020 at 8:50:12 PM permalink | |
Evenbob Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 146 Posts: 25010 |
No, people said he did those things because in those days they thought that's what a God would do. Carnival tricks. Sleight of hand, pulling a rabbit out of a hat or walking on water. Sawing a woman in half or changing water into wine. Raising the Dead or making the statue of liberty disappear. By those standards, David Blaine is a God. If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose. |
April 26th, 2020 at 6:03:43 AM permalink | |
FrGamble Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 67 Posts: 7596 | They were looking for a Savior not a magic man. The miracles Christ performs are all true and important but they are followed by Jesus telling those who witnessed them not to tell anyone. His teaching and ultimately His perfect faith and trust in the Father is what saves us. “It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” ( |
April 26th, 2020 at 6:08:50 AM permalink | |
FrGamble Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 67 Posts: 7596 |
The idea of God forcing us is a dangerous thing. You are right to wonder about it. Why wouldn't God force us to love Him? It would actually be better for us, but it wouldn't be love. Love requires freedom, the freedom even to hate. “It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” ( |
April 26th, 2020 at 10:30:02 AM permalink | |
Evenbob Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 146 Posts: 25010 |
The magic tricks/miracles are so ridiculous I can't even bring myself to discuss them much. They're embarrassing and that's why Xtians don't talk about them a lot. It's why NT scholars wish they weren't in the NT. They don't help the case for Jesus at all, they make him look like a carnival performer. You have to examine the mindset of people telling the stories after his death. They were interested in new believers, in growing the cult. They were uneducated poor people, bogged down in a superstitious way of life we can't even comprehend. It was logical in their minds Jesus would have performed magic tricks, and including them in the stories worked wonders in getting new believers. Always look for the most logical answer, it's right 99% of the time. If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose. |
April 26th, 2020 at 11:54:50 AM permalink | |
FrGamble Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 67 Posts: 7596 | You often have really good advice, such as look for the most logical answer, it is a mystery to me why you don't follow it. Acts 2:22: "O men of Israel, listen! God publicly endorsed Jesus of Nazareth by doing tremendous miracles through Him, as you well know." The miracles of Jesus are very important. In themselves they teach and explain who Jesus is and they testify to His divinity. You need to find some better NT scholars. You also need to reexamine your conception of the Jewish people. They were not uneducated poor people bogged down in superstition. They were in many ways the opposite. The miracles were the proof of the teaching of Jesus. Read the healing of the blind man and the raising of Lazarus and how impossible it was for the Jewish authorities after those miracles to say Jesus was a false prophet or not who He claimed to be. Again you also have to deal with the fact that Jesus Himself was very careful not to be seen as someone who just did miracles throughout all the Gospels. They supported His claim but the real reason He came was to save us from our sins by perfectly trusting His Heavenly Father, the opposite of original sin, and giving up His life for us. Pay attention to what those who are mocking Jesus on the cross say to Him, "You saved others why don't you save yourself?" Everyone knew about these miracles they were not doubted, King Herod knew about them and wanted Jesus to do magic for him, but Christ was silent. The crucifixion was the way in which people could try to forget about the many miracles He preformed and if it wasn't for the Resurrection they would have. “It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” ( |
April 26th, 2020 at 12:41:03 PM permalink | |
Evenbob Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 146 Posts: 25010 |
They really aren't. They're cheap made up tricks that never happened but sounded like what a god would do 2000 years ago. You made them important, so now you think they are. You yourself have admitted the Bible is full of fiction and non fiction. The only way to tell the difference is thru outside verification at the time. That would make 90% of the Bible unverifiable and unuseable. If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose. |
April 26th, 2020 at 12:43:20 PM permalink | |
FrGamble Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 67 Posts: 7596 | The miracles of Jesus are very important and everyone seems to recognize that except you. It was a fact that Jesus did these things, even His greatest enemies acknowledge that. “It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” ( |
April 26th, 2020 at 2:46:40 PM permalink | |
Evenbob Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 146 Posts: 25010 |
Yeah, no. They're the most ridiculed and laughed at aspects of the NT. In my life I've seen countless cartoons with Jesus walking on water with different captions. Or changing water into wine. Nobody believes they ever happened, not really. Even you have to constantly say they are 'facts', when you know darn well they can't be proven and are as far from facts as you can get. I like the one where he yelled at a fig tree, or waved his hand or whatever, and it died on the spot. Hilarious. I remember a cartoon in Playboy in the early 70's where Jesus is standing next to a guy who's filling a wine barrel with a garden hose at a frat party. He's saying to Jesus 'Please, Lord, just one more time?". Jesus is rolling his eyes in boredom. Funny. If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose. |
April 26th, 2020 at 4:38:34 PM permalink | |
aceofspades Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 83 Posts: 2019 |
Everyone??? Really - every single living person but EvenBob recognizes it? |
April 26th, 2020 at 4:46:01 PM permalink | |
Evenbob Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 146 Posts: 25010 |
There are an endless number of these. If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose. |