Original Sin?

April 25th, 2020 at 8:50:12 PM permalink
Evenbob
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 146
Posts: 25010
Quote: FrGamble
He did those things because He is God.


No, people said he did those things because in those days they thought that's what a God would do. Carnival tricks. Sleight of hand, pulling a rabbit out of a hat or walking on water. Sawing a woman in half or changing water into wine. Raising the Dead or making the statue of liberty disappear. By those standards, David Blaine is a God.
If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.
April 26th, 2020 at 6:03:43 AM permalink
FrGamble
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 67
Posts: 7596
They were looking for a Savior not a magic man. The miracles Christ performs are all true and important but they are followed by Jesus telling those who witnessed them not to tell anyone. His teaching and ultimately His perfect faith and trust in the Father is what saves us.
“It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” (
April 26th, 2020 at 6:08:50 AM permalink
FrGamble
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 67
Posts: 7596
Quote: aceofspades
Yeah, why did Jesus have to prove himself to humans anyway? God is all powerful, he can force us to obey him - why all the smoke and mirrors?


The idea of God forcing us is a dangerous thing. You are right to wonder about it. Why wouldn't God force us to love Him? It would actually be better for us, but it wouldn't be love. Love requires freedom, the freedom even to hate.
“It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” (
April 26th, 2020 at 10:30:02 AM permalink
Evenbob
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 146
Posts: 25010
Quote: FrGamble
They were looking for a Savior not a magic man. The miracles Christ performs are all true


The magic tricks/miracles are so
ridiculous I can't even bring
myself to discuss them much.
They're embarrassing and that's
why Xtians don't talk about them
a lot. It's why NT scholars wish
they weren't in the NT. They don't
help the case for Jesus at all, they
make him look like a carnival
performer.
You have to examine the mindset
of people telling the stories after
his death. They were interested
in new believers, in growing the
cult. They were uneducated poor
people, bogged down in a
superstitious way of life we can't
even comprehend. It was logical
in their minds Jesus would have
performed magic tricks, and including
them in the stories worked wonders
in getting new believers.
Always look for the most logical answer,
it's right 99% of the time.
If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.
April 26th, 2020 at 11:54:50 AM permalink
FrGamble
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 67
Posts: 7596
You often have really good advice, such as look for the most logical answer, it is a mystery to me why you don't follow it.

Acts 2:22: "O men of Israel, listen! God publicly endorsed Jesus of Nazareth by doing tremendous miracles through Him, as you well know."

The miracles of Jesus are very important. In themselves they teach and explain who Jesus is and they testify to His divinity. You need to find some better NT scholars. You also need to reexamine your conception of the Jewish people. They were not uneducated poor people bogged down in superstition. They were in many ways the opposite. The miracles were the proof of the teaching of Jesus. Read the healing of the blind man and the raising of Lazarus and how impossible it was for the Jewish authorities after those miracles to say Jesus was a false prophet or not who He claimed to be. Again you also have to deal with the fact that Jesus Himself was very careful not to be seen as someone who just did miracles throughout all the Gospels. They supported His claim but the real reason He came was to save us from our sins by perfectly trusting His Heavenly Father, the opposite of original sin, and giving up His life for us.

Pay attention to what those who are mocking Jesus on the cross say to Him, "You saved others why don't you save yourself?" Everyone knew about these miracles they were not doubted, King Herod knew about them and wanted Jesus to do magic for him, but Christ was silent. The crucifixion was the way in which people could try to forget about the many miracles He preformed and if it wasn't for the Resurrection they would have.
“It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” (
April 26th, 2020 at 12:41:03 PM permalink
Evenbob
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 146
Posts: 25010
Quote: FrGamble


The miracles of Jesus are very important.


They really aren't. They're cheap
made up tricks that never
happened but sounded like
what a god would do 2000
years ago. You made them
important, so now you think
they are. You yourself have
admitted the Bible is full
of fiction and non fiction.
The only way to tell the
difference is thru outside
verification at the time.
That would make 90% of
the Bible unverifiable and
unuseable.
If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.
April 26th, 2020 at 12:43:20 PM permalink
FrGamble
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 67
Posts: 7596
The miracles of Jesus are very important and everyone seems to recognize that except you. It was a fact that Jesus did these things, even His greatest enemies acknowledge that.
“It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” (
April 26th, 2020 at 2:46:40 PM permalink
Evenbob
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 146
Posts: 25010
Quote: FrGamble
The miracles of Jesus are very important and everyone seems to recognize that except you. .


Yeah, no. They're the most ridiculed
and laughed at aspects of the NT.
In my life I've seen countless cartoons
with Jesus walking on water with
different captions. Or changing water
into wine. Nobody believes they ever
happened, not really. Even you have
to constantly say they are 'facts', when
you know darn well they can't be proven
and are as far from facts as you can get.

I like the one where he yelled at a fig
tree, or waved his hand or whatever,
and it died on the spot. Hilarious.

I remember a cartoon in Playboy in
the early 70's where Jesus is standing
next to a guy who's filling a wine
barrel with a garden hose at a frat party.
He's saying to Jesus 'Please, Lord,
just one more time?". Jesus is
rolling his eyes in boredom. Funny.
If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.
April 26th, 2020 at 4:38:34 PM permalink
aceofspades
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 83
Posts: 2019
Quote: FrGamble
The miracles of Jesus are very important and everyone seems to recognize that except you. It was a fact that Jesus did these things, even His greatest enemies acknowledge that.


Everyone???
Really - every single living person but EvenBob recognizes it?
April 26th, 2020 at 4:46:01 PM permalink
Evenbob
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 146
Posts: 25010
Quote: aceofspades
Everyone???
Really - every single living person but EvenBob recognizes it?


There are an endless number
of these.



If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.