Original Sin?
November 21st, 2019 at 11:29:23 AM permalink | |
Evenbob Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 146 Posts: 25010 |
HUH? No I don't, that's ridiculous. There is no invisible hand behind random, it wouldn't be random if there was. It creates intricate patterns that look 'created' by some intelligent force, so of course you go looking for the creator. Not finding one, you invent him. If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose. |
November 21st, 2019 at 1:08:41 PM permalink | |
FrGamble Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 67 Posts: 7596 | Okay, I think the problem might be that you ascribe words like "seek" and "create" to randomness. Something truly random wouldn't seek or desire to create anything would it? “It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” ( |
November 21st, 2019 at 2:41:24 PM permalink | |
Evenbob Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 146 Posts: 25010 |
You can use seek and create with no consciousness behind them. For instance, warm air always 'seeks' the highest point in a home thereby creating a warmer upstairs than downstairs. That is certainly true in my house. If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose. |
November 21st, 2019 at 2:47:39 PM permalink | |
FrGamble Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 67 Posts: 7596 | Warm air is not seeking in the way that a human being seeks truth. Randomness doesn't create patterns in the same was a sculptor makes a work of art. “It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” ( |
November 21st, 2019 at 2:57:30 PM permalink | |
Evenbob Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 146 Posts: 25010 |
Correct. It 'seeks' the same way water seeks the lowest ground, or the way negatively charged clouds seek the positively charged ground as lightening. If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose. |
November 21st, 2019 at 7:37:50 PM permalink | |
FrGamble Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 67 Posts: 7596 | So really it is not so much randomness that causes these beautiful patterns and intricate snowflakes but it is really the reaults of these natural laws that confine randomness to certain restrictions. It really does make you wonder if there is something more to those laws and where they came from. “It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” ( |
November 21st, 2019 at 8:12:47 PM permalink | |
Evenbob Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 146 Posts: 25010 |
You're almost pathologically concerned with where things 'came from'. Why do they have to come from anywhere, why can't they just have been here forever. This is a concept we have trouble with because our bodies are finite. We think we know where we 'came from', but we really don't. We cannot conceive of something with no beginning and no end because we think we;re surrounded by beginnings and endings. When we're actually surrounded by continuance. If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose. |
November 21st, 2019 at 8:41:26 PM permalink | |
FrGamble Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 67 Posts: 7596 | I can easily conceive of something without a beginning or end; that is God. Are you not concerned or curious about where we or the universe came from? We, nor the universe created itself. It couldn't be eternal because that creates an infinite regress and breaks the natural laws we know concerning material things. I'm also curious that you admit our only experience concerning ourselves and everything around us is finite, yet for sone reason you think we are not finite? Why do you think that is? “It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” ( |
November 21st, 2019 at 10:55:42 PM permalink | |
Evenbob Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 146 Posts: 25010 |
Like I said, you're obsessed with beginnings. Saying god is eternal is a start. Think bigger. This eternal god you invented is in an eternal universe with no start or end. This is certainly no mystery to the oldest religion in the world: According to Hindu vedic cosmology, there is no absolute start to time, as it is considered infinite and cyclic. Similarly, the space and universe has neither start nor end, rather it is cyclical. The current universe is just the start of a present cycle preceded by an infinite number of universes and to be followed by another infinite number of universes. The dominant theme in Puranic Hindu cosmology, state Chapman and Driver, is of cycles and repetition. There are multiple universes, each takes birth from chaos, grows, decays and dies into chaos, to be reborn again. Further, there are different and parallel realities. I know this sounds like gobblygook nonsense to you. There's no god behind it, it just is. This is what truly enlightened masters discover. They can't teach it because they can't explain it. All they can do is point a seeker in the right direction. If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose. |
November 22nd, 2019 at 4:23:53 AM permalink | |
FrGamble Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 67 Posts: 7596 | It doesn't sound like nonsense. It sounds like pure religious thought that is not grounded in reality or history. It is wishful and beautiful thinking. However, the problem comes when you have to apply logic, science, and look at history. I appreciate your respect for such purely religious and supernatural ideas as you describe, but excuse me if I say I need a little more. I am seeking where religion and reality meet not just beautiful fantasy. “It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” ( |