Original Sin?

Quote: FrGamble

Sounds like Trump. It is nothing at all remotely like my God.

"There are none so blind as those who will not see."

Quote: FrGamble

The type of worship God seeks is to be the best person you can be and to be wiling to love and serve others.

Yeah, right.

Quote: FrGamble

God says over and over again that if you worship Him but mistreat others your worship is appalling to Him..

What does this have to do with god
demanding to be worshiped and
praised at every turn. That's the
question, why is a god so petty and
ego centered that he would demand
worship in the first place. I know this
is a sore point with many atheists, they
say all the time they would never
accept a god, like the Biblical god, who
demands you worship him or else.

The bible says whatever you want it to say.

You could easily use this from the story of Noah:

Quote:

(20) Then Noah built an altar to the Lord and, taking some of all the clean animals and clean birds, he sacrificed burnt offerings on it. (21) The Lord smelled the pleasing aroma and said in his heart: “Never again will I curse the ground because of humans, even though[a] every inclination of the human heart is evil from childhood. And never again will I destroy all living creatures, as I have done.

as a reason for why we make burned animal sacrifices in thanks. Of course, we don't do this now, but if we did, that bit there could be used as the justification for why.

I wonder if any animals went extinct because of this practice.

Also observe God's optimism: "even though every inclination of the human heart is evil from childhood" Wow. If that is truly the case, it is only because he made us that way.

Quote: Evenbob

What does this have to do with god
demanding to be worshiped and
praised at every turn. That's the
question, why is a god so petty and
ego centered that he would demand
worship in the first place. I know this
is a sore point with many atheists, they
say all the time they would never
accept a god, like the Biblical god, who
demands you worship him or else.

You can never in a million years of worship or praise add on iota to God's greatness. One of my favorite prayers we say often in the Mass has this great line in it: "Our worship can add nothing to your greatness, but is itself your gift."

Reason would tell you that if you did recognize a loving creator of the universe who sent His only Son to die for our sins and who offers us eternal life in perfect happiness in Heaven then you might be overwhelmed with thankfulness and want to worship Him. In fact it would be a fitting response to the reality of God in your life. God doesn't demand to be worshipped, but if you think about it and use your brain then you will realize that He deserves to be worshiped.

Quote: Dalex64

The bible says whatever you want it to say.

I imagine you could pick and choose and edit any book to make it say what you want. Another reason there needs to be an authority to teach us the correct interpretation. Perhaps the author would be the best authority.

Quote:

Also observe God's optimism: "even though every inclination of the human heart is evil from childhood" Wow. If that is truly the case, it is only because he made us that way.

We've talked about this too much for you to keep making the same mistakes. Please remember God did make us perfect and free. We chose evil, God does not.

Quote: FrGamble

I imagine you could pick and choose and edit any book to make it say what you want. Another reason there needs to be an authority to teach us the correct interpretation. Perhaps the author would be the best authority.



We've talked about this too much for you to keep making the same mistakes. Please remember God did make us perfect and free. We chose evil, God does not.

Really? Children are evil, and they choose to be evil? "even though every inclination of the human heart is evil from childhood"

You keep making the mistake in believing in original sin, and the reason for original sin, to boil it right down.

Yes, the author would be the best authority. Perhaps he should make an appearance and tell us what he meant.

Too bad the OT was invented and written down in the millennia before Christ was born, and the NT wasn't written down until decades after his death.

Not exactly first hand testimony, written down immediately for accuracy, for either book.

Not written by god, either.

Quote: FrGamble

God doesn't demand to be worshipped

And yet he does, all thru the Bible.

"God not only demands worship, but He has also given instructions about worship! (Exodus 20:3-11; 2 Kings 17:15; Psalm 47:2; Malachi 1:14; Luke 4:8) God considers willful deviation from His instructions as rebellion."

I asked Ed the priest today and he said
when he was a priest they were taught
god not only demands worship, he doles
out punishment for those that don't
worship him. He said you were punished
for even missing mass and you're opportunity
to worship god. He doesn't understand
how today's Catholics get away with going
to mass a only couple times a year. In his
day it never would have been tolerated.

We keep arguing over the internal details of a fictional book.

Moses wasn't a real person. He did not write the OT - it was written over centuries by many authors. The Jewish people decided which stories went in the book, and which did not.

I was thinking that believing all these stories because some of the people are real and some of the places are real, well it reminded me of the Thermians in Galaxy Quest and their belief in the accuracy of the "historical documents"

From that, I found "The Thermian Argument" on YouTube.
https://youtu.be/AxV8gAGmbtk
In that, he is discussing the merits of a form of argument used while discussing fantasy worlds and other works of fiction. He might as well be talking about the Bible, and our arguments about what is in it and what it means.

Give it a watch.

The problem with citing the Thermian Argument (I do like the name and it is a very good and logical argument to use against those that defend fictional texts) in the case of the Bible is that it does deal with real life. Unlike the nonsense of how you kill a vampire, the Bible deals with real questions like how we best life our lives? Moreover, the Bible is always shown to be right in this advice. Treat others as you would like to be treated, recognize that there is a God and something higher than yourself, treat others as equals, stay away from dangerous stuff, etc., etc. These and many more help us to be better people. Besides what you might think it is about real people and real events (except of course when the stories are written obviously in a different genre, see Job or Song of Songs). The Bible continues to be what it stands for; B.I.B.L.E. (basic instructions before leaving earth).