Original Sin?

Quote: Evenbob

Believe me when I say you have no
evidence that even one prayer has
ever been answered by a deity.

You see people after tornados walking in the wreckage of the their own home thanking god. I suppose because god didn't decide to kill their family as well.

Quote: rxwine

You see people after tornados walking in the wreckage of the their own home thanking god. I suppose because god didn't decide to kill their family as well.

My sister in law lost a daughter to
a drunk driver a few years ago. Her
family was frantic with grief. I asked
my wife why they weren't joyful,
they're always saying everything is
gods will, so this accident must be
gods handiwork. Very confusing to
atheists, sends a contradictory message.

If I believed in god, and he took my
daughter, I'd hate his guts forever.
It happened to Mark Twain. He became
an instant atheist and spoke against
god for the rest of his life.

Quote: FrGamble

The more important something is the more it should be examined which makes the decision to have faith in God and His Son Jesus Christ one of if not the most important thing to examine. However, we also don't want to treat faith or prayer as something that can be tested in a laboratory. If we are talking about the supernatural then we rise above those things that can be observed and tested.

So what you consider the most important decision that can be made, can neither be examined nor tested?

Then why lie and say that it should be examined?

Quote: FrGamble

I am starting to understand when many people on this forum use the word atheism they don't really mean they don't believe in God, even though that is the easiest way they can explain it. It means more akin to they don't care about the answer to the question "is there a God?" They don't really feel the question is worth examining and have just decided to say there is not a God because that is what they think. I believe that is more akin to an agnostic position. Surprisingly I also think that is a more reasonable and honest position than to declare for certain that there is no God. Once you declare one way or the other on God you open yourself up to the good questions your dragon analogy poses. Theism has better answers than atheism does to all your questions. If you wouldn't spend a dollar on theism you should run very, very far away from atheism.

Nope, still missing the mark.

Again, atheism is just a statement - I don't believe in god. To be sure, there are thousands of people who fit your description to a T. They think briefly, discount god, and spend little to no time thinking of the topic again. But that's them. That is not a product or symptom of atheism, it's a product and symptom of that specific person. There are Catholics who blindly accept that route and know nothing about it, perhaps spending Sundays at church for no other reason than "that's what you do". Is that what it means to "be a Catholic"? Of course not. It's the same thing.

I do think of such things, because thinking is fun to me. I'm not social. I enjoy my alone time to ponder things and have my thoughts. When I very first heard about god at 6-7yrs of age, my instant reaction was disbelief. It was Santa all over again. God, Buddha, Shiva, Vishnu, The Great Spirit, Zeus, Mazda... every time, it registers as complete fantasy.

Can I explain creation? No. Does that then mean that god is a possibility? Technically, I would say yes, and I do in fact hold that view. Doesn't that then make me agnostic? I say no. At least how we define deities, I find it laughable that if some thing, an actual being, created all of this, that we are somehow a very special part of it. That we are the king pin of it. That our existence is at the forefront of this being's concern. That is the hubris EB speaks of, and I could not agree more. That to me is the definition of a deity, and I reject it completely. Therefore, atheist.

Others can have similar ideas, or very different ideas, or no ideas at all, none of which are "of atheism", as atheism is not a thing. It's not that hard to wrap your head around. You don't believe in dragons or unicorns. That lack of belief does not "make" you something, except for perhaps "sane" and "reasonable". It's the same thing.

You keep trying to shove this round peg into a square hole. Stop. It's not a peg. All it is is nothing at all.

Quote: Face

You keep trying to shove this round peg into a square hole. Stop. It's not a peg. All it is is nothing at all.

That's exactly it. He either does it on
purpose or truly doesn't get it. In fact,
all it is is no-thing at all.

Zen is very much into the concept of
no-thing. There is nothing sacred in
zen, there is no thing sacred. Want to
have your mind blown, get a copy
of The Gateless Gate. It's 13th century
zen koans, zen questions. Mu is the
Chinese word for 'no-thing' and it's
the gate to enlightenment.

These concepts go all the way back to
the very first religion in India, in the
Veda's. Predates yahweh by a thousand
years.

This is why I don't discount people who are not Christian. I think that everyone is entitled to their beliefs because I have no proof that I am right. I just believe that I am and have constructed a reality based on a "fact" that Jesus Christ died for our sins, something that I believe but cannot be proven until it's too late (or He returns).

I don't try to change souls directly. I do it indirectly. Bob would argue that there is no soul, and there is no scientific proof that there is one. For one to believe in a soul or the supernatural one has to experience and believe in it. To conclude that there is a God without really thinking it through is about as foolish (to me) is concluding that there isn't one without the same navel-gazing.

Quote: boymimbo

Bob would argue that there is no soul

We have souls that reincarnate. We're all
connected and the thing that connects
us is probably what you would call god.
But it's not personal, it's not a creator,
it's not something you can pray to. It's
not god. But you feel like you have to
anthropomorphize it, so you worship
it and give it meaning and a personality.

Stop it.

Ahem, and you would prove that how?

Like come on, there is absolutely no scientific claim to your belief either.

Quote: boymimbo

Ahem, and you would prove that how?
Like come on, there is absolutely no scientific claim to your belief either.

It's not a belief, it's a theory.

Maybe it was Mark Twain's traditional caricature of Heaven that made me not want to go there. Paraphrasing - Millions of people who can't sing, playing harps and singing at the top of their lungs forever and ever.