Original Sin?

Isn't that convenient, when you don't want to talk about something you call it a discussion about semantics. Maybe you could enlighten me about your definition of evidence and what real hardcore evidence looks like?

Quote: FrGamble

what real hardcore evidence looks like?

The most obvious is prayer. Study after
study after study has been done on the
effectiveness of prayer on the dying.
Some involved thousands of patients
and cost millions. The outcome is always
the same, the ones who were prayed
for died at the same rate as those who
weren't prayed for.

If god were real, we would see a positive
influence on those prayed for. Of course
religious people laugh and rationalize
the outcomes of these studies, just like
they twist everything else to fit their
view of reality.

There are a few thousand obscure religions
on the planet, some worshiping some very
strange gods. In order to pick your god, you
must first reject all the other gods. I like what
Stephen F. Roberts said when talking to a
Christian friend, he sums it up rather nicely.

"I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in
one fewer god than you do. When you understand why
you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand
why I dismiss yours."

And you FrG, will understand why I am an
atheist when you realize why you reject
all other gods besides yours.

Quote: Evenbob

And you FrG, will understand why I am an
atheist when you realize why you reject
all other gods besides yours.

There is a huge difference that I don't think you or Stephen Roberts realize. Atheism is the outright rejection of all religion and gods. This would not necessarily be the position of Christians, especially in regards to religions and concepts of God previous to the Revelation of Jesus Christ. Nareed and I have gone back and forth about this and Vatican II expresses the idea that there are sparks of truth present in many religions that lead eventually to the one true God. Surely Christians see their foundations is the Jewish Religion, so there is not a rejection there. Even the thirst for and quest to understand a higher power than humanity is clearly present in the pagan, eastern, and even prehistoric religions.

True atheism is the rejection of all religion, all gods, and the supernatural. It is a brash and foolish ideology. I would think that most thinking people would reject atheism and at least be agnostic.

Quote: FrGamble

It is a brash and foolish ideology. \.

Some day you might understand atheism.
One thing it's not is an ideology.

An ideology is any "body of doctrine, myth,
belief, etc., that guides an individual, social
movement, institution, class, or large group."

Atheism is one thing and one thing only,
a rejection of theism. It contains no beliefs,
no ideas.

You are really good at definitions. By the way I am still waiting for your definition of evidence and why none of the previously mentioned evidence for God is actually not evidence.

By the way what is stopping me from saying that Theism is one thing and one thing only, an acceptance of theism?

By the way you are fooling yourself if you think your rejection of God has no effect in guiding how you see the world, yourself, and others.

Quote: FrGamble

why none of the previously mentioned evidence for God is actually not evidence.
.

For the same reason it wasn't evidence to
Einstein, Asimov, Ben Franklin, Freud,
Woody Allen, Stephen Hawking, Edison,
Ford, Carnegie, Carl Sagan and many
other people far smarter than I could ever
dream of being. If it wasn't evidence to
them, what should that tell you about
the 'evidence'.

I think they would all say it is evidence, just not convincing enough for them. Many of those you mentioned unfortunately suffer from the philosophy of empiricism.

Quote: FrGamble

I think they would all say it is evidence, .

No they wouldn't, evidence is evidence.
It either points to something or it doesn't.
You can't just wave your hand around
and proclaim the universe was created by
a god because it seems that way to you.
Smart people want to see the evidence,
not something based on your opinion.

Take another look at the above list of evidence that I gave above, which I think points to the existence of God and let me know which ones don't count as evidence.

Quote: FrGamble

Take another look at the above list of evidence that I gave above, .

Which post is it in.