Is Obamacare a slur?

Quote: AZDuffman

Sorry, that is the Obama plan. The death panels!

Not a thing!

Quote: Tanko

Waiting times:

Canada: 'In 2023, Canada's median waiting time between a General practitioner (GP) referral to a specialist was 14.6 weeks.'

UK: 'The current median wait time is 14.5 weeks.'

Ireland: 'Public patients waited an average of 7½ months to see a consultant last year, more than two months less than in the previous year,'

Italy: Up to ten months. 'The average waiting times to see a doctor in Italy will largely depend on the specialty, but you can expect waiting times of several months. For example, a neurological visit would take around ten months, while for an eye examination, you would have to wait eight months.'

And, yet, all those nations have a longer life expectancy than in the US.

So what's the Tanko Healthcare Plan?

Quote: AZDuffman

There is zero reason to believe what we spend will go down. There is more reason to believe it would go up as government is historically more inefficient than private enterprise. Government has zero incentive to be more efficient. But it does tend to emulate the Holy Roman Empire with lots of little fiefdoms bureaucrats protect to keep themselves in comfortable living.

There absolutely is. We know what is spent on billing and insurance disputes.

Quote: AZDuffman

Government dictating supply is a bad thing. You get a system like the USSR where the joke was the government was planning a fancy rail system so everyone could get to Moscow where the shops were vs. just having shops in every town.

Not always. The government needs can often decide the best supply when it comes to things that are not consumer products (IE healthcare.)

Quote: AZDuffman

Again, you seem to think a nationalized system means you will be able to drive up, get all the services you need, pay nominal to nothing, and all will be rainbows and unicorns. Reality us systems like Canada are great.....unless you get sick or injured. Then it all breaks down.

Yes, that is exactly what a National System means.

Quote: Gandler

There absolutely is. We know what is spent on billing and insurance disputes.





Not always. The government needs can often decide the best supply when it comes to things that are not consumer products (IE healthcare.)






Yes, that is exactly what a National System means.

You do not at all understand how things work. You talk like some kid in college who had a prof who said how great socialized medicine is but never did any research on it. Sorry to break it to you, but all that happens is insurance companies approving you get replaced by some government worker deciding. It is not magically unlimited care that is cheaper to boot. It is limited care with longer wait times.

Everything you claim about it goes against simple economics.

Quote: GenoDRPh

And, yet, all those nations have a longer life expectancy than in the US.

So what's the Tanko Healthcare Plan?

This is not a measure of health care, too many other things have to be taken into account.

Quote: AZDuffman

Sorry, that is the Obama plan. The death panels!

Exactly.



This is how they do it:
https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/09/Lobbyists2024.jpeg


Further reading:
https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/international-news/politics/top-lobbyists-of-2024/



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Pluralistic: America's largest hospital chain has an algorithmic death panel

August 5, 2023
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https://pluralistic.net/2023/08/05/any-metric-becomes-a-target/

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Quote: Tanko

Waiting times:

Canada: 'In 2023, Canada's median waiting time between a General practitioner (GP) referral to a specialist was 14.6 weeks.'

UK: 'The current median wait time is 14.5 weeks.'

Ireland: 'Public patients waited an average of 7½ months to see a consultant last year, more than two months less than in the previous year,'

Italy: Up to ten months. 'The average waiting times to see a doctor in Italy will largely depend on the specialty, but you can expect waiting times of several months. For example, a neurological visit would take around ten months, while for an eye examination, you would have to wait eight months.'

It's not that the US has great waiting times if you look at the whole population. A good many aren't going when they need to. The ACA lowered the uninsured population from 16% to 7%, but it's still too expensive.

Quote:

The Commonwealth Fund’s 2023 Health Care Affordability Survey found that 38% of people surveyed said they delayed or skipped needed healthcare or prescription drugs because they couldn’t afford it. Medical debt is the major reason with 34% pointing to that as the reason they avoided care.

https://www.forbes.com/advisor/health-insurance/what-happens-if-you-dont-have-health-insurance/#:~:text=If%20you%20have%20a%20health,which%20can%20become%20quite%20expensive.

Quote: GenoDRPh

The Duffplan: Too old, too sick or too poor? Too bad!

I am okay with that plan. I just don't value human life as high as most people do.

Quote: AZDuffman

This is not a measure of health care, too many other things have to be taken into account.

Do tell! Enlighten us with your superior knowledge, legal beagle!

Quote: AZDuffman

You do not at all understand how things work. You talk like some kid in college who had a prof who said how great socialized medicine is but never did any research on it. Sorry to break it to you, but all that happens is insurance companies approving you get replaced by some government worker deciding. It is not magically unlimited care that is cheaper to boot. It is limited care with longer wait times.

Everything you claim about it goes against simple economics.

No they do not, we can easily look at what is occurring in nations that transitioned to national health systems and national insurance systems. It is cheaper care, better care, and often shorter wait times.

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/health-care-wait-times-by-country


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We actually do not even need to get too much into the weeds, we can simply look at the ultimate result, life expectancy:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_life_expectancy

https://www.worldometers.info/demographics/life-expectancy/

https://healthsystemsfacts.org/?gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjwi5q3BhCiARIsAJCfuZmJ4cVLbgloiRdq6hYza4rR-EzFTn-DP2J_v82rCsHLJ31FA-Gx8vQaAnaHEALw_wcB

If our system is so superior, we must have the highest life expectancy right? (No we don't, we are lower than Panama.... and we have been going downwards...) You love to compare us to Canada, Canada is almost 4 years higher than us..... So they must be doing something right....