ICE- Authoritarian or community based?

Quote: SOOPOO

No! Never overstayed a visa.
We will just have to agree to disagree. I think border security is a very important issue for our country. And a big factor in the illegal alien population. I’m not dismissing the ‘overstaying visa’ problem. But why can’t we fix both at the same time? Deport all here illegally.

Sure, but when you are talking 10-20 million, many of whom are now in blended families (married to citizens, legal kids, etc...) it is much more complicated than just deport everyone. Just the logistical process of physically locating and taking custody of them, you are talking about, potentially several agents and many work hours per person. This is why you do have to prioritize. Even, with Trump's massively ballooned ICE and using other agencies as defecto ICE (FBI, CPD, BP, etc...) they are barely making a dent (about 500k deported if you believe their numbers.) Now, 500k sounds like a lot, but look at numbers compared to Obama and Biden
.. Even with using ICE as a militarized force with less rules, there is still barely a difference. And, my guess, with pending reformations this year, ICE will be more limited by next year, and less outside agencies will be working deportations by next year... So the idea that there will be 10+ million deportations this administration is just fantasy stuff. And, that is not even factoring people keep coming in, it's not like it's always -1, it's more like -1 +1 +1, -1 +1 ,etc...

It gets down to cost benefit. Is spending billions to hunt down live in housekeepers more worthwhile than spending billions on infrastructure. Personally, I am more worried about crumbling bridges than if my neighbor's live in nanny has a valid visa.

Quote: Gandler

Sure, but when you are talking 10-20 million, many of whom are now in blended families (married to citizens, legal kids, etc...) it is much more complicated than just deport everyone. Just the logistical process of physically locating and taking custody of them, you are talking about, potentially several agents and many work hours per person. This is why you do have to prioritize. Even, with Trump's massively ballooned ICE and using other agencies as defecto ICE (FBI, CPD, BP, etc...) they are barely making a dent (about 500k deported if you believe their numbers.) Now, 500k sounds like a lot, but look at numbers compared to Obama and Biden
.. Even with using ICE as a militarized force with less rules, there is still barely a difference. And, my guess, with pending reformations this year, ICE will be more limited by next year, and less outside agencies will be working deportations by next year... So the idea that there will be 10+ million deportations this administration is just fantasy stuff. And, that is not even factoring people keep coming in, it's not like it's always -1, it's more like -1 +1 +1, -1 +1 ,etc...

It gets down to cost benefit. Is spending billions to hunt down live in housekeepers more worthwhile than spending billions on infrastructure. Personally, I am more worried about crumbling bridges than if my neighbor's live in nanny has a valid visa.

As I often say, I live in the real world. Even with Trump unleashing the hounds it seems like he won’t make a million ‘forced’ deportations a year. But as been pointed out, there have been nearly 2 million self deportations as well. Add Them up and that’s more than a dent. And the success of deporting so many might give the next guy trying to get here illegally some pause. I can list so many things I’d rather cut from the budget than border enforcement.

Quote: Gandler

Quote: terapined1

In WTF news
Things are getting heated out there
A dumb MAGA chump drives by a student protest
He starts arguing with a teen girl
He becomes so infuriated, he gets out of his truck and takes her to the ground and starts hitting her!!!!!!!!!
WTF
Que the video going viral
As the group pulls him off, it's hilarious he keeps the red hat trying to escape the scrum
https://www.reddit.com/r/50501/s/CkqTJPiV5g
https://www.facebook.com/share/r/1MoksoD351/

Perfect recruit for ICE

It is well known that MAGA guys abuse teenagers routinely, so this is not shocking at all.

Like most he will probably be cheered for "owning the libs.". Gotta love MAGA...

Quote: SOOPOO

I’ll make a deal with you. I’ll allow you to put Trump in jail if you allow me to deport all here illegally?

I assume if you ran a business, you'd fire long term useful and productive people for a technical infraction like filling out their employment form wrong, but keep even the less useful losers because they got that right instead of looking at the overall picture and making a sound decision about your employees.

Quote: rxwine

I assume if you ran a business, you'd fire long term useful and productive people for a technical infraction like filling out their employment form wrong, but keep even the less useful losers because they got that right instead of looking at the overall picture and making a sound decision about your employees.

Analogy doesn’t work. Being here illegally is not a ‘technical infraction’.

Less useful losers get fired because they are less useful losers.

If I ran a business (I did!) I wouldn’t hire any illegal aliens. And I referred foreign doctors to a specific attorney who specialized in getting the doctors the right to stay and work LEGALLY. Every now and then someone wouldn’t qualify, and they went back home to country of origin.

Quote: SOOPOO

Analogy doesn’t work. Being here illegally is not a ‘technical infraction’.

Less useful losers get fired because they are less useful losers.

If I ran a business (I did!) I wouldn’t hire any illegal aliens. And I referred foreign doctors to a specific attorney who specialized in getting the doctors the right to stay and work LEGALLY. Every now and then someone wouldn’t qualify, and they went back home to country of origin.

There’s nothing more imaginary and primarily technical than stepping over an imaginary line. And the scenario is finding out after they’ve already worked possibly for years before finding out they committed the infraction, not about the concept that you wouldn’t hire them.

We could make it the spouse of a family member who is working here illegally. So far, you’re using zero good reasons to reject what I’m saying.

I agree we need borders, but what we’re doing as a solution is dumb.

Quote: rxwine

There’s nothing more imaginary and primarily technical than stepping over an imaginary line. And the scenario is finding out after they’ve already worked possibly for years before finding out they committed the infraction, not about the concept that you wouldn’t hire them.

We could make it the spouse of a family member who is working here illegally. So far, you’re using zero good reasons to reject what I’m saying.

I agree we need borders, but what we’re doing as a solution is dumb.

I’m in the mood of ‘we’ll have to agree to disagree’. To you it’s an imaginary line. To me it’s our country’s border.

https://www.cato.org/blog/5-ice-detainees-have-violent-convictions-73-no-convictions#:~:text=This%20arrest%20dataset%20also%20does,ICE%20arrests%20in%20late%20July

Of people booked into ICE custody this fiscal year (since October 1, 2025):

Nearly three in four (73 percent) had no criminal conviction.
Nearly half had no criminal conviction nor even any pending criminal charges.
Only 8 percent had a violent or property criminal conviction.
Only 5 percent had a violent criminal conviction.
A majority of criminal convicts had vice, immigration, or traffic convictions.
The appendix table at the end of this report provides the detailed breakdown of the data by detailed type of crime.

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This is almost identical to last year, and everyone was arguing that they are only arresting the worst of the worst....

They are not...

Quote: Gandler

https://www.cato.org/blog/5-ice-detainees-have-violent-convictions-73-no-convictions#:~:text=This%20arrest%20dataset%20also%20does,ICE%20arrests%20in%20late%20July

Of people booked into ICE custody this fiscal year (since October 1, 2025):

Nearly three in four (73 percent) had no criminal conviction.
Nearly half had no criminal conviction nor even any pending criminal charges.
Only 8 percent had a violent or property criminal conviction.
Only 5 percent had a violent criminal conviction.
A majority of criminal convicts had vice, immigration, or traffic convictions.
The appendix table at the end of this report provides the detailed breakdown of the data by detailed type of crime.

----------


This is almost identical to last year, and everyone was arguing that they are only arresting the worst of the worst....

They are not...

So more than half had ‘A CRIMINAL CONVICTION OR PENDING CRIMINAL CHARGES’. I thus consider the operation a STUNNING SUCCESS! Thanks for the info….

Quote: SOOPOO

So more than half had ‘A CRIMINAL CONVICTION OR PENDING CRIMINAL CHARGES’. I thus consider the operation a STUNNING SUCCESS! Thanks for the info….

For the majority of pending charges, it's traffic violations... It is not "the worst of the worst."