Israeli conflict

When Japan attacked Pearl Harbor the US declared war on them, chased them across the Pacific and nuked their homeland. Glad to hear ideas of why that was not a lot different than Israel's response to Palestine.

Quote: kenarman

When Japan attacked Pearl Harbor the US declared war on them, chased them across the Pacific and nuked their homeland. Glad to hear ideas of why that was not a lot different than Israel's response to Palestine.

Quote: ams288

I know it must be confusing now but once your brain fully matures it will be easier for you to make sense of the world.

Quote: kenarman

When Japan attacked Pearl Harbor the US declared war on them, chased them across the Pacific and nuked their homeland. Glad to hear ideas of why that was not a lot different than Israel's response to Palestine.

I think the difference is that that was then and this is now. I think technically in today’s environment our dropping the A bomb would be considered a war crime.

It is complicated. Israel knows Hamas terror leader is hiding with civilians as shields. If they know they can kill him but there will be collateral civilian deaths, how many is too many?
One?
Ten?
One hundred?
No limit?

I’m just hoping when this is sacking of Gaza is done the people there will remember this is what happens if we slaughter, torture, rape and kidnap Israeli civilians. I doubt it…

Quote: kenarman

Quote: ams288

I know it must be confusing now but once your brain fully matures it will be easier for you to make sense of the world.

Guuuurl, you need a new comeback.

Quote: SOOPOO

I think the difference is that that was then and this is now. I think technically in today’s environment our dropping the A bomb would be considered a war crime.

Half of WWII would be considered war crimes today.

Newspaper headlines "Japs Bombed" would be called racist by about a third of the population.

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the taking of hostages with the implicit - if not directly stated threat - that they will be killed or gravely harmed if the hostage takers don't get what they want is a despicable strategy in times of armed conflict

as far as I know radical Muslims are the only ones who employ this tactic

this is also true of the tactic of DELIBERATELY killing innocent civilians

as opposed to unavoidably killing innocent civilians who are being used as human shields by - guess who - radical Muslims

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Quote: PotPie

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the taking of hostages with the implicit - if not directly stated threat - that they will be killed or gravely harmed if the hostage takers don't get what they want is a despicable strategy in times of armed conflict

as far as I know radical Muslims are the only ones who employ this tactic

this is also true of the tactic of DELIBERATELY killing innocent civilians

as opposed to unavoidably killing innocent civilians who are being used as human shields by - guess who - radical Muslims

.

Good summary. It’s what makes Hamas and all who support them terrorists, not warriors.

Frankly, I don't worry about Hamas or terrorism in general increasing in popularity any time soon. If that way interests you, you're probably a lost soul anyway.

Literally the only public opinion that matters here is how Israel shapes it by how they handle it. I don't know if they can improve public opinion wherever its gone sour, but they can certainly make it worse. And that only matters if they make it bad enough to affect them negatively in some material way. If they manage this war while accomplishing that, I suppose that's the best they can hope for because it's likely not going to make them more popular.

Quote: rxwine

Actually, I think one apparent difference between response to Russia vs. Gaza, is the Russians aren't all assumed to be with Putin. Palestinians seem to be overtly assumed to be guilty of something even if they aren't in Hamas, whereas even the Russian soldiers fighting in Ukraine aren't necessarily fighting as willing volunteers.

Both peoples deserve to be judged individually. So do people in Israel and anywhere else. That's the way to combat antisemitism as well. Some Americans in war deserve to be convicted of war crimes that they actually did, and others as heroes.

That's the way it always is, not sometimes is. No exceptions as far as I'm concerned.

It depends on policy. If America had a policy to engage in War Crimes, it would be fair to associate America with war crimes. If America has a policy of prosecuting war criminals even in controversial conflicts, that is very different. If Hamas (the government of Gaza -by popular vote-) has a policy that is the extermination of the Jews at any cost, that is an alarming policy position that is worth pointing out.

Now, in the case of both Hamas and Putin, I am not sure (well in the case of Hamas I am), that either have won a legit election in decades. But, they are still regarded as the representative power of the people (rightly or wrongly), and that is a factor.

In the case of both Russians and Palestinians they both support the invasion of the respective nations (by overwhelming majorities in polls.) I am not saying that all deserved to be condemned for this (and both are subject to endless threats so public polls should probably be taken with a massive grain of salt), but it is not a nonfactor for generalization. And, in the case of Hamas, it is debatably even worse, because they do not just want a political change in borders, they want a complete extermination of a certain group of people (and say what you want about Russia, it would be hard to find somebody who despises Russia more than me, but that is not the case with Russians, they just want a border expansion, if anything they want to protect ethnic Ukrainians, even if for the wrong reasons....)

Everyone is obviously different individually. But, policy and leadership do matter (you can even say it is all that matters for international policy depending on philosophy). And, to some degree we have to generalize nations by who they choose to support. I am sure most North Koreans (to take an extreme example) are great people on an individual level, but they still help operate the most totalitarian nation in modern history.