Israeli conflict

Quote: ams288

Nothing about the events in the Middle East challenges the premises I base my life on.

I get you’re just trying to be insulting without actually being insulting, but as with many of your posts, it just comes off as totally retarded.

Not very DEI using a word like that.

Quote: kenarman

Not very DEI using a word like that.

Sometimes, one must call a spade a spade.

From what I've seen reported so far, even among Gazans who support Hamas, very few supported Hamus breaking the cease fire.

Eliminating Hamas may seem worthwhile goal, but if you're the average Gasan you're probably wondering how much collateral damage is going to occur. If you had nothing to do with this, and Israel destroys your home, are they going to pay to replace it. Probably not.

Generally, most just actions occur, where if a murderer kills someone in your family, you have a right to have that person captured or killed if necessary. I think every reasonable person understands that.

But what if the cops asked you how many innocent people or property damage you think is allowable to do it? Is it okay to kill 10 or 20 innocent people to get the murderer? Is it okay to level half the neighborhood to do it? It's not a question you normally have to ask. But it can be in war and probably is asked in Gaza.

Quote: rxwine

From what I've seen reported so far, even among Gazans who support Hamas, very few supported Hamus breaking the cease fire.

Eliminating Hamas may seem worthwhile goal, but if you're the average Gasan you're probably wondering how much collateral damage is going to occur. If you had nothing to do with this, and Israel destroys your home, are they going to pay to replace it. Probably not.

Generally, most just actions occur, where if a murderer kills someone in your family, you have a right to have that person captured or killed if necessary. I think every reasonable person understands that.

But what if the cops asked you how many innocent people or property damage you think is allowable to do it? Is it okay to kill 10 or 20 innocent people to get the murderer? Is it okay to level half the neighborhood to do it? It's not a question you normally have to ask. But it can be in war and probably is asked in Gaza.

You either believe ‘Gaza’ attacked Israel or ‘Gaza’ didn’t attack Israel. I believe Gaza, either explicitly or complicitely attacked Israel. The people in Gaza have done nothing to stop the build up of rockets aimed at Israel over the past two decades. They have done nothing to prevent Hamas from using hospitals/schools/mosques as shields. Remember, they voted for Hamas.

Proportionally I think the Hamas massacre would have killed 40,000+ Americans. Just imagine if Mexico allowed cartels to aim than many missiles, build up that many armed terrorists, and allow that kind of raid into the USA? Taking thousands of hostages. You think America would be (or should be?) showing restraint in eliminating those responsible? Please…..

How many thousands were aware of the plan to slaughter as many families, women, children, elderly as possible? How many did anything to stop it?

Quote: SOOPOO

Remember, they voted for Hamas.

I wonder ... I'm not informed, but was this really free will?

would they vote for Hamas again? new elections are not being held, that much I know, and I think this tells a lot

Quote:

Just imagine if Mexico allowed cartels to aim than many missiles, build up that many armed terrorists, and allow that kind of raid into the USA? Taking thousands of hostages.

some of the Leftists would say we were the ones at fault

Quote: link

some liberal activists, including on college campuses, have argued that the killings are Israel’s fault for its government’s support of settlement expansion in the West Bank and the economic and security restrictions it has applied to Gaza

terrorism, it turns out, is something you can cheer for

https://www.politico.com/news/2023/10/12/democrats-generational-divide-remains-as-israel-battles-hamas-00121307

Quote: odiousgambit

terrorism, it turns out, is something you can cheer for

Yea, we know. Your side cheered it on on 1/6/21.

Quote: SOOPOO

You either believe ‘Gaza’ attacked Israel or ‘Gaza’ didn’t attack Israel. I believe Gaza, either explicitly or complicitely attacked Israel. The people in Gaza have done nothing to stop the build up of rockets aimed at Israel over the past two decades. They have done nothing to prevent Hamas from using hospitals/schools/mosques as shields. Remember, they voted for Hamas.

Proportionally I think the Hamas massacre would have killed 40,000+ Americans. Just imagine if Mexico allowed cartels to aim than many missiles, build up that many armed terrorists, and allow that kind of raid into the USA? Taking thousands of hostages. You think America would be (or should be?) showing restraint in eliminating those responsible? Please…..

How many thousands were aware of the plan to slaughter as many families, women, children, elderly as possible? How many did anything to stop it?

I'm guessing most didn't know of that plan. If it was so well-known in Gaza how did Israel miss it by so much not to be prepared? I still believe you have to ask the same question. Most people believe in parity if a loved one is killed. An eye for an eye so to speak. But how many eyes do you want for each one eye?

Okay, you believe they all knew what would happen.

Hamas kills 1500 in attack. Let's make it 2000. Let's kill 5 times the Gazans, that's 10,000. We're probably already there.

But since the stated messy goal of taking out Hamas permanently, it's likely going to be a lot more. That's typical war, but don't expect the people in Gaza not to complain about the solution.

Actually it's put at 8000 right now. So, pretty close.

Quote: rxwine

I'm guessing most didn't know of that plan. If it was so well-known in Gaza how did Israel miss it by so much not to be prepared? I still believe you have to ask the same question. Most people believe in parity if a loved one is killed. An eye for an eye so to speak. But how many eyes do you want for each one eye?

Okay, you believe they all knew what would happen.

I of course don’t believe ALL the Palestinians knew of the terrorist plan. But certainly a significant number beyond the thousands actually involved. And of course it is a MASSIVE failure of the Israeli intelligence system. I do believe MOST Palestinians are aware of the GENERAL plans to launch terrorist attacks across the border. And the total disregard for civilian human life that Hamas has.

I think you are confusing the unfortunate basically unavoidable deaths of Palestinian civilians with the MISSION to eliminate Hamas thus preventing another incursion into Israel to kill/torture/hostage take. If the ‘good’ Palestinians would turn over the Hamas criminal terrorists, and help free the hostages, the Israeli mission would not be needed. The ‘good’ Palestinians are doing none of those things.

To me, a better endgame for the Israelis would be to announce they've taken out all the obvious known Hamas targets and then are going to start with selective strikes on a lowered but unending timeline. If they take over Gaza, they're just going to have an unending dangerous babysitting job that will never likely convert the current population and produce no pro-Israeli leaders who can keep from being assassinated. Better to sit back, strike with special operations, improve defenses, than wade into something like that.