The City on Fire

Quote: JCW09

You need to be acting in a legal manner in order to invoke self defense as a legal argument
Once your actions are illegal, the invocation of a self defense argument cannot be made.
You must be 18 in the state of IL to possess a long gun
You must be 18 in the state of WI to possess a long gun unless it is being used for hunting.
This 17 year old doesn't qualify as a legal possessor in his home state of IL or in WI
Therefore, the simple act of walking on the street holding his rifle makes all of his actions that night illegal
He has no right to defend himself with an illegally possessed long gun.
You cannot invoke a the self defense doctrine while simultaneously breaking the law.
He is going to be convicted of crimes.
My guess is he spends time in prison, which as SooPoo pointed out, won't go well for him

I am not an attorney, and this vastly differs between states and territories, but that is not necessarily true. You can claim self-defense even if you are in the wrong for other matters.

For example, there have been cases where shooters in Federal buildings were killed by somebody illegally carrying a concealed weapon in Federal buildings (gun free), and self-defense is successful.

I don't know enough about that state to know if he was legally allowed to own/carry a weapon in public at that age, but even if he was not, self-defense is still a viable defense (it does not necessarily mean he will not be charged with other crimes later like carrying a weapon where prohibited, like with some of the military/federal defense cases, such as the somewhat recent military recruiter who stopped a mass shooter in a recruiting office with an illegally carried weapon).

If he is defending against a legitimate threat (again I don't know enough about the circumstance), he has every right to defend himself with the firearm whether it be legal or illegally obtained.....

Quote: AZDuffman

Quote: JCW09

Quote: AZDuffman

Unless you are an attorney you are speculating.

Wis. Stat. § 948.60(2)(a). These restrictions only apply to a person under age 18 who possesses or is armed with a rifle or a shotgun if the firearm is a short-barreled rifle or short-barreled shotgun, or if the person is not in compliance with the hunting regulations set forth in Wis. Stat. §§ 29.304 and 29.593.

If not a short barrel looks like he is in the clear.

He will likely get off. Will only take one holdout on the jury.

Please list your link as I am not finding any reference to the "short barrel" requirement in 948.60(2)(a).

Closed the link, just did a google search to pull it.

Wis Code 948.60
It isn't there, do you have a different cite?

Quote: Gandler

Quote: JCW09

You need to be acting in a legal manner in order to invoke self defense as a legal argument
Once your actions are illegal, the invocation of a self defense argument cannot be made.
You must be 18 in the state of IL to possess a long gun
You must be 18 in the state of WI to possess a long gun unless it is being used for hunting.
This 17 year old doesn't qualify as a legal possessor in his home state of IL or in WI
Therefore, the simple act of walking on the street holding his rifle makes all of his actions that night illegal
He has no right to defend himself with an illegally possessed long gun.
You cannot invoke a the self defense doctrine while simultaneously breaking the law.
He is going to be convicted of crimes.
My guess is he spends time in prison, which as SooPoo pointed out, won't go well for him

I am not an attorney, and this vastly differs between states and territories, but that is not necessarily true. You can claim self-defense even if you are in the wrong for other matters.

For example, there have been cases where shooters in Federal buildings were killed by somebody illegally carrying a concealed weapon in Federal buildings (gun free), and self-defense is successful.

I'd like to see that case, can you cite it for me?

Quote: AZDuffman

I still cannot believe they are covering this in OZ, but they are. And they are noticing the reality of what BLM is.

Like the black guy says, he has
white people every day telling
him how he should think and
feel and vote. Just like Biden
did. It's how Libs think, they
own blacks just like in slave
days. The number of blacks
speaking out about this now
is incredible. Never seen anything
like it.

Quote: JCW09

Quote: AZDuffman

Quote: JCW09

Quote: AZDuffman

Unless you are an attorney you are speculating.

Wis. Stat. § 948.60(2)(a). These restrictions only apply to a person under age 18 who possesses or is armed with a rifle or a shotgun if the firearm is a short-barreled rifle or short-barreled shotgun, or if the person is not in compliance with the hunting regulations set forth in Wis. Stat. §§ 29.304 and 29.593.

If not a short barrel looks like he is in the clear.

He will likely get off. Will only take one holdout on the jury.

Please list your link as I am not finding any reference to the "short barrel" requirement in 948.60(2)(a).

Closed the link, just did a google search to pull it.

Wis Code 948.60
It isn't there, do you have a different cite?

No. Try highlighting the whole quote and googling. I am not going into it any further.

Quote: JCW09

Quote: Gandler

Quote: JCW09

You need to be acting in a legal manner in order to invoke self defense as a legal argument
Once your actions are illegal, the invocation of a self defense argument cannot be made.
You must be 18 in the state of IL to possess a long gun
You must be 18 in the state of WI to possess a long gun unless it is being used for hunting.
This 17 year old doesn't qualify as a legal possessor in his home state of IL or in WI
Therefore, the simple act of walking on the street holding his rifle makes all of his actions that night illegal
He has no right to defend himself with an illegally possessed long gun.
You cannot invoke a the self defense doctrine while simultaneously breaking the law.
He is going to be convicted of crimes.
My guess is he spends time in prison, which as SooPoo pointed out, won't go well for him

I am not an attorney, and this vastly differs between states and territories, but that is not necessarily true. You can claim self-defense even if you are in the wrong for other matters.

For example, there have been cases where shooters in Federal buildings were killed by somebody illegally carrying a concealed weapon in Federal buildings (gun free), and self-defense is successful.

I'd like to see that case, can you cite it for me?

I guess I remember the more recent one slightly different, it appears after backlash they never actually charged him:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/checkpoint/wp/2015/08/04/outrage-and-an-officer-the-anatomy-of-a-navy-controversy-after-the-chattanooga-attack/


https://advance-lexis-com.ezproxy1.apus.edu/api/document?collection=news&id=urn:contentItem:5G78-V511-DXCW-D2KX-00000-00&context=1516831.


But, the charges being considered were not murder or manslaughter, they were charges for possessing a personal weapon on Federal property.

But, I am pretty sure it is correct to say, you can use a gun to defend yourself, even if you are possessing the gun illegally or carrying it where it should not be (again I know nothing about this case, or the individual, nor have I watched the videos or read beyond what has been posted here)…..

Quote:

Wisconsin prosecutors charged 17-year-old Kyle Rittenhouse with six counts in Kenosha County:

- intentional homicide
- reckless homicide
- attempted intentional homicide
- reckless endangering safety
- reckless endangering safety
- possession of a dangerous weapon by a minor

Does Wisconsin use the electric chair?

Quote: Evenbob

That was Don Lemonhead

lol!

I'm gonna have to start using that one except he's now Donna Lemonhead!! 🤣🤣

Quote: AZDuffman

Quote: JCW09

Quote: AZDuffman

Quote: JCW09

Quote: AZDuffman

Unless you are an attorney you are speculating.

Wis. Stat. § 948.60(2)(a). These restrictions only apply to a person under age 18 who possesses or is armed with a rifle or a shotgun if the firearm is a short-barreled rifle or short-barreled shotgun, or if the person is not in compliance with the hunting regulations set forth in Wis. Stat. §§ 29.304 and 29.593.

If not a short barrel looks like he is in the clear.

He will likely get off. Will only take one holdout on the jury.

Please list your link as I am not finding any reference to the "short barrel" requirement in 948.60(2)(a).

Closed the link, just did a google search to pull it.

Wis Code 948.60
It isn't there, do you have a different cite?

No. Try highlighting the whole quote and googling. I am not going into it any further.

I did and provided you the link of the law section you quoted.
There is no short barrel requirement mentioned in the law.
Without further support/facts, I am concluding what you said is incorrect.

He's been charged with first degree reckless homicide and use of a dangerous weapon.