The Coronavirus thread

Quote: Evenbob

38,000 people died in car wrecks
last year. They would all still be
alive if they had just stayed home
that day. Ban all cars immediately!
Save humanity from itself!

I mean, yeah, banning cars would definitely save lives, but car wrecks are also not contagious so your analogy is pointless.

Quote:

Ridiculous. Just like shutting down
small businesses and making people
wear useless masks is ridiculous.

You linked to an article several days ago that pointed out how San Francisco has some of the strictest lockdowns in the country and very minimal deaths due to Covid.

You also haven't answered my question: How many of those 330,000 people would still be alive if Covid had not exacerbated the condition that actually killed them?

Quote: Evenbob

38,000 people died in car wrecks
last year. They would all still be
alive if they had just stayed home
that day. Ban all cars immediately!
Save humanity from itself!

Ridiculous. Just like shutting down
small businesses and making people
wear useless masks is ridiculous.

Shutting down businesses-Agree

Masks Useless-Disagree

I guess I haven't done any deep research into the masks, but it's a small enough inconvenience that I'm willing to take something akin to a Pascal's Wager approach to it. Besides, it seems to make some people less apprehensive, which is probably a positive thing unto itself. I could maybe get on board with you if they were proven, unequivocally, to be 100% useless.

Even if they were useless, I still wouldn't really mind as long as it is the choice of the business in question. I've only been present for one actual instance of a lady getting on some guy for not wearing a mask outdoors...this was in line at Trader Joe's. She was making statements to the effect that she was going to notify store personnel if she, "Caught him," with his mask down in the store. In the meantime, he was going on a tirade about her not telling him what to do...but he was really escalating the whole thing and starting to get out of control with his temper. He actually got face-to-face with her and was basically yelling.

I basically just walked up to them and said, "Listen ma'am, you need to shut your mouth immediately. We don't need any of this hyper liberal babysitting bull****, so if you're going to tell store staff that he has his mask down in the store...assuming that even happens...just do it. Don't stand here and cause a problem in the line. He already said he's going to wear it in the store."

Then I turned to him, "And you, Mr. Trumper...I thought Republicans were supposed to have morals? What kind of man raises his voice and steps nose-to-nose with a woman like that? A woman you don't even know, no less. You just need to calm down."

Quote: HotDog

I mean, yeah, banning cars would definitely save lives, but car wrecks are also not contagious so your analogy is pointless.

(Quote clipped, relevance to joke)

You've never seen a highway pileup? JK

Quote: HotDog

You also haven't answered my question: How many of those 330,000 people would still be alive if Covid had not exacerbated the condition that actually killed them?

The question was not addressed to me but your questions shows a very short term view. The average age of the people dying of covid is 83. Many already have a very poor quality of life. How many do you think would be alive in 1 year, 2 years, 5 years even without covid. Most of these people if given the choice would give up their life to save their kids or grandkids the stress of losing their homes or business.

We have forgotten what the original reason for lockdowns which was to not overload the hospitals. That is a legitimate reason if only to try and reduce stress on the front line medical workers. If the vaccines are effective we may actually extend some lives with the policy. You never save a life you only delay what is the future of all of us, death.

Quote: kenarman

The question was not addressed to me but your questions shows a very short term view. The average age of the people dying of covid is 83. Many already have a very poor quality of life. How many do you think would be alive in 1 year, 2 years, 5 years even without covid.

Even if they would be dead in a year or two, Covid is still responsible for robbing them of those one or two years. That's the only point I'm making, is a statistical one.

Quote:

Most of these people if given the choice would give up their life to save their kids or grandkids the stress of losing their homes or business.

We have forgotten what the original reason for lockdowns which was to not overload the hospitals. That is a legitimate reason if only to try and reduce stress on the front line medical workers. If the vaccines are effective we may actually extend some lives with the policy. You never save a life you only delay what is the future of all of us, death.

Hospitals are once again becoming overloaded and medical workers have been overstressed for months. Unless we start rolling out this vaccine quicker, we'll probably start seeing some more lockdowns.

Quote: HotDog

Even if they would be dead in a year or two, Covid is still responsible for robbing them of those one or two years. That's the only point I'm making, is a statistical one.



Hospitals are once again becoming overloaded and medical workers have been overstressed for months. Unless we start rolling out this vaccine quicker, we'll probably start seeing some more lockdowns.

Well, the lockdowns have essentially robbed everyone of a year anyway, so it's a horse apiece.

https://summit.news/2020/12/28/journalist-hounded-after-pointing-out-that-only-old-and-sick-die-from-covid/

Quote: Mission146

Well, the lockdowns have essentially robbed everyone of a year anyway, so it's a horse apiece.

Has anyone anywhere actually been on lockdown the entire time since February (or whenever it was this started)? I'm genuinely curious...

Where I live in the Midwest we were on "lockdown" for barely a month, but you could still go to the grocery store and places like that (even liquor stores stayed open). We have a mask mandate, but pretty much everything has been open and (almost) normal for months now.

Quote: petroglyph

https://summit.news/2020/12/28/journalist-hounded-after-pointing-out-that-only-old-and-sick-die-from-covid/

"Why are we on lockdown when so few (healthy) people are dying?!?"

Um... fewer people are dying BECAUSE we've had lockdowns... If you can't go out in public and be around other people, you obviously decrease your chances of catching a contagious disease...

Quote: HotDog

Has anyone anywhere actually been on lockdown the entire time since February (or whenever it was this started)? I'm genuinely curious...

Where I live in the Midwest we were on "lockdown" for barely a month, but you could still go to the grocery store and places like that (even liquor stores stayed open). We have a mask mandate, but pretty much everything has been open and (almost) normal for months now.

I suppose technically not...unless you can loosen the definition of, "Lockdown," to include those owners and employees of businesses that have closed permanently as a result of the lockdowns. In terms of my state of residence, Pennsylvania, I can say that indoor dining has been heavily restricted (and drinking---which you could never technically do without a food order) for almost the entire year. Fortunately for me, I don't drink, so that was negligible.

I think the biggest thing is that Governor Wolf shutdown indoor dining fairly early this month to extend until sometime in January, which is determined, but could be changed. I'm not sure if you're aware of this, but December is almost universally one of the better months for restaurants and the BEST month for many restaurants...so I expect more of those restaurants and bars to comply with the order to permanently close in the near future.

In the meantime, grocery stores do things that are both incongruous and, to me, counterintuitive. For one thing, most of them have restricted their hours and almost none are open 24/7 anymore. I'm not sure how it's supposed to help anything to essentially cause more people to be inside the store at one time, but there you go.

I want to say we were on lockdown for three months or so the first time around, and liquor stores DID stay open, (except for a brief period) but those are owned by the state, so I'm not exactly shocked.

Speaking of the state, while they were busy shutting down restaurants, casinos and bars, the state lottery was still going...so I guess that must be, "Essential," or something.

In any event, some states have it better than others...but PA is not one of them.