The Coronavirus thread

Quote: RonC

"Trump did use the word “hoax” but his full comments, and subsequent explanation, make clear he was talking about Democratic attacks on his administration’s handling of the outbreak, not the virus itself."

https://www.factcheck.org/2020/04/democratic-ad-twists-trumps-hoax-comment/

"What's False
Despite creating some confusion with his remarks, Trump did not call the coronavirus itself a hoax."

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/trump-coronavirus-rally-remark/

A little context is important because very early on, Democrats were critical of the bold move to close entry from China and other actions. Before the virus really took off here, the Democrats were saying that it was safe to go out and party. No one new crap back then and the experts that many try to give an aura of perfection to now were very, very wrong. Not on purpose, most likely, but still wrong.

There are plenty of other things worthy of criticism; why use a comment that was taken out of context?

That’s a fair point.

I could go through and point out numerous statements, in context, that were outright ridiculous. Most of them were related to completely downplaying the virus during the first several weeks of the pandemic. Beyond that, you’d have him spouting off about vaccines, treatments, etc...etc...subjects about which he knows less than nothing.

More of his statements than not seemed to be geared towards protecting the stock market because the economy...a turnaround and improvement that started long before he took office...is where he hangs his hat.

Beyond that, he brought up Obama and the Swine Flu more than once, as if one has anything to do with the other. In the early days of CV-19, Trump would cite 17,000 deaths due to the Swine Flu as a result of the handling of the Obama Administration. Ignoring that 17,000 is on the higher end of the possible range, these quotes had no purpose other than to sow division between the two major parties.

The POTUS obviously has no control over how deadly a virus is, or how easily spread, but how’s that 17,000 comparison working out for him now?

Anyway, virtually everything that he has said has been self-serving with a goal to appeal to his base. More than that, all of his statements were gambles that he lost. He was counting on CV-19 not to become what it has become and then he can come out of it looking like a genius who appropriately handled a problem that was being way overblown by the other side. Oops.

Only now with his poll numbers and approval ratings swirling the drain does he finally promote, “Wearing the mask when you can’t socially distance.” I guess better late and not enough than never and none...but make no mistake that he’s only pivoting because of what his poll numbers are doing. I think the numbers have shown that he’s getting to the point where most independents aren’t on board and he’s starting to lose Republicans.

So, there’s really no reason that something like this ever needed to be a them v. us, right v. left, political theatre, but that starts at the top. Bungled it. As discussed earlier in this thread, I’m not letting the Governors who way overreached (either party) in their mandates off the hook, either.

There are probably fifty other examples of him making this Politics on Broadway...but you seem to agree with that, anyway.

Quote: Tanko

Despite a 69% increase in the number of new daily cases, the number of daily deaths has fallen 70% since April 21st.

The US is currently tenth in the number of deaths per million population. If not for Cuomo and Murphy turning their nursing homes into death camps, the US would be a much lower position.

Obesity is a major factor contributing to the death rate. 72% of Americans are either overweight or obese, and 41% are obese.

"Moreover, 62% of the patients with obesity died of COVID-19, compared with 36% of those without obesity." - Article

Eighth fattest.

Calculate your BMI

Demographics are another factor.

“Latino adults were more obese (47%) than their black (46.8%), white (37.9%), and Asian (12.7%) peers” - Salud

Black and Latino Americans have more than four times the hospitalization rate of white Americans.

“Black Americans tend to be younger when they have chronic risk factors – cardiovascular disease, diabetes, obesity, chronic pulmonary disease – most likely to be associated with Covid-19 infection”-Statnews

Those are all excellent points, but there’s one other factor you did not include, again, keep in mind I agree with the ones you did include:

In the first couple months or so of the virus, prior to testing being more readily available, they basically only wanted you to get the tests if you were already symptomatic.

Given that, since the people being tested were much more likely to be symptomatic, by extension, they were much more likely to have CV-19 because that’s what they were presenting symptoms of. Because they were already symptomatic, again, they’re clearly not people who swat the virus away like a fly without ever showing symptoms. Because of that, those people were also more likely to die from it, again, because they were already actively sick.

So, the nature of the testing itself would have led to a greater percentage of positive rates as well as a greater death rate amongst those who did have it, because several people who had it and did not show any symptoms (or sometimes very few) were underrepresented in the testing.

It’s actually kind of ironic that Trump and some Republicans would cite the mortality rates as a victory whilst blaming the additional testing for the number of cases going up! The additional testing is ALSO responsible for the percentage of people who have had it and died going DOWN, because now you’re testing people who are more likely to survive if not show minimal symptoms, if any.

So, it’s kind of a pick one situation. If they only test people who are already ill, then we’re going to show a greater mortality rate amongst those known to have it. If you do more testing, you’ll have a greater raw number of cases, but a lower positivity rate as a percentage and a lower mortality rate amongst those who have it.

Quote: Mission146

There are probably fifty other examples of him making this Politics on Broadway...but you seem to agree with that, anyway.

There are lots of things that have happened that I disagree with, some of it having to do with the virus.

I actually said that in my post...I didn't understand why using something that did not happen as described as necessary when there are things that he has done wrong.

I'd like to see more politics/government done in the light of day. I don't like his style or all of his actions but it in many ways beats the closed door wink and a handshake (elbow bump now?) of yesteryear.

If he could only get fair coverage, not favorable, he would be doing much better in the polls...but that is for another thread.

Quote: Tanko

“Black Americans tend to be younger when they have chronic risk factors – cardiovascular disease, diabetes, obesity, chronic pulmonary disease – most likely to be associated with Covid-19 infection”-Statnews

I still think it is very possible blacks have a genetic predisposition to it. Same as sickle cell anemia and high blood pressure.

Quote: Mission146

Most of them were related to completely downplaying the virus during the first several weeks of the pandemic.

You are of course aware that a leader in act should downplay a threat vs. hyping it and inciting panic, no?

Quote: Mission146

I could go through and point out numerous statements, in context, that were outright ridiculous.

You don't have to, because someone already did.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2020/07/trumps-lies-about-coronavirus/608647/

I don't think Ron really pays attention to how much phony baloney Trump spouts, based on how he defends him.

Quote: AZDuffman

You are of course aware that a leader in act should downplay a threat vs. hyping it and inciting panic, no?

Extent.

Quote: Mission146

In the first couple months or so of the virus, prior to testing being more readily available, they basically only wanted you to get the tests if you were already symptomatic.

At the time, there was dire shortage of available tests. Corona virus tests are difficult to produce, and FDA regulations adopted in 2004 prevented the use of the S.Korean tests. It was not until the end of April that the FDA approved use of the SK tests for emergency use.

Quote: Tanko

At the time, there was dire shortage of available tests. Corona virus tests are difficult to produce, and FDA regulations adopted in 2004 prevented the use of the S.Korean tests. It was not until the end of April that the FDA approved use of the SK tests for emergency use.

That’s correct, but it doesn’t change my point. When you’re only testing people who already have symptoms, people who have it and are asymptomatic, or have very minimal symptoms, are not getting tested which results in a greater mortality rate (percentage) than is actually the case.

In fact, that’s still somewhat true, because certainly everyone who has/had it has still not all been tested. These people have lived, so we still have an inflated mortality rate, just not to as great an extent. The flip side of that coin is that the number of actual, physical cases remains greater than what is being reported.

It’s all political spectacle, anyway. The physical reality is that whoever gets it gets it and whoever dies, dies. Testing and reporting have no bearing on physical reality. However, to the extent that it’s to be used for a political talking point...if you want a lower mortality rate, then you should also want more testing, despite the fact that raw infected numbers will increase. One side effect, though, is that there will be a reduced percentage of positive tests, as well. If you don’t want increased testing, then only those who are actively sick will be tested (as before) and the mortality rate will go up as a result.

I think lower mortality rate is the better face-saving talking point, especially if they ever want to go back to the tactic of trying to minimize the seriousness and/or try to compare it to the flu...which is itself laughable and always was. In any case, more testing = lower reported mortality rate.

Quote: AZDuffman

I still think it is very possible blacks have a genetic predisposition to it. Same as sickle cell anemia and high blood pressure.

Many Blacks and Latinos are at a higher risk, because they are essential workers who cannot work from home. While others are able to remain isolated, and work at home, Blacks and Latinos, working front line jobs, have to commute to and from work each day.