Saint John Henry Newman

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October 23rd, 2019 at 4:44:32 AM permalink
AZDuffman
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 135
Posts: 18136
Quote: Gandler
I don't understand the attitude that some hold where they think women are an automatic liability just by being there. It seems so archaic to me.


Have you ever been in a combat unit? Ever even served on a mostly male crew where 1-2 women are causing a distraction?

See, in combat you need unit cohesion. Lives depend on it. If a member starts getting protective of another member more than the other members, you lose cohesion. Men act different alone than when women are around. Pretty much any grown man knows this. Well, some men never offer an opinion and just say "I don't understand that, I will defer to an expert on 'x'." So we can throw out that kind of opinion. But regular grown men who have spent time on all-male things know this.

FWIW, women are surely the same way. It is one reason why feminists demand "all girls" things. It is why feminists made the sexist "take your daughter to work day" in the 1990s.

How can someone not understand this?
The President is a fink.
October 23rd, 2019 at 5:01:43 AM permalink
Gandler
Member since: Aug 15, 2019
Threads: 27
Posts: 4236
Quote: AZDuffman
Have you ever been in a combat unit? Ever even served on a mostly male crew where 1-2 women are causing a distraction?

See, in combat you need unit cohesion. Lives depend on it. If a member starts getting protective of another member more than the other members, you lose cohesion. Men act different alone than when women are around. Pretty much any grown man knows this. Well, some men never offer an opinion and just say "I don't understand that, I will defer to an expert on 'x'." So we can throw out that kind of opinion. But regular grown men who have spent time on all-male things know this.

FWIW, women are surely the same way. It is one reason why feminists demand "all girls" things. It is why feminists made the sexist "take your daughter to work day" in the 1990s.

How can someone not understand this?


This sounds like that lecture from A Few Good Men.

But to answer your question, yes, and my unit was actually an experiment with female integration. And, there was some mixing around and some various issues (Sexual assault allegations fraternization, etc....) But, the job got done and it worked out. Officially it was successful.
October 23rd, 2019 at 5:28:25 AM permalink
AZDuffman
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 135
Posts: 18136
Quote: Gandler
This sounds like that lecture from A Few Good Men.

But to answer your question, yes, and my unit was actually an experiment with female integration. And, there was some mixing around and some various issues (Sexual assault allegations fraternization, etc....) But, the job got done and it worked out. Officially it was successful.


Because the "lecture" from the movie made good points.

So it seems your unit had exactly the kinds of problems anyone could predict. I am sure "officially" it would be considered "successful" no matter what had happened given the PC culture demands. Let's see what happens in real combat.
The President is a fink.
October 23rd, 2019 at 7:40:25 AM permalink
Gandler
Member since: Aug 15, 2019
Threads: 27
Posts: 4236
Quote: AZDuffman
Because the "lecture" from the movie made good points.

So it seems your unit had exactly the kinds of problems anyone could predict. I am sure "officially" it would be considered "successful" no matter what had happened given the PC culture demands. Let's see what happens in real combat.


What I do know from both personal experience and data that is available:

Gay people almost never get in trouble for sexual indiscretion in the military (not talking about pre-legalization where you could get kicked out if you openly stated it....)
The vast majority of "sex crimes" (I quoted because I am including consesual sex between different ranks, which is prohibited) are between straight men and women.

The idea that gay people are making the military a "bathhouse" (whatever that even means anymore) is simply not true. Gay people in the military are simply more careful and discreet which is why as others have posted almost never get in trouble.

And, most of the sex issues are between straight men and women. And, in an adult world, consenting adults are going to have sex. I have seen this happen in the private sector as well at companies that prohibit it, its simply a realty, men and women will find ways of having sex even if law or corporate policy prohibits it.....

Women who are qualified should be able to work in any unit they qualify for.

The idea that the very presence of women destroys all Male morality is silly and is almost Islamist (women should not be allowed to work or be around men without covers and a chaperone).

I am sorry, there is simply no logical reason to prohibit women and gay men for any job other than personal bias.
October 23rd, 2019 at 8:03:22 AM permalink
AZDuffman
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 135
Posts: 18136
Quote: Gandler

The idea that gay people are making the military a "bathhouse" (whatever that even means anymore) is simply not true. Gay people in the military are simply more careful and discreet which is why as others have posted almost never get in trouble.


What it means is that gay males prefer more partners and hooking up with them is there reason for being. Like they either go to a bathhouse for lots of partners in a short period of time or in places like this forum where gay members bragged about letting guys do what they wish with them.


Quote:
Women who are qualified should be able to work in any unit they qualify for.

The idea that the very presence of women destroys all Male morality is silly and is almost Islamist (women should not be allowed to work or be around men without covers and a chaperone).

I am sorry, there is simply no logical reason to prohibit women and gay men for any job other than personal bias.


There is lots of reason unless you believe in a post-modern, genderless world. Your islamophobic comment has nothing to do with it. There are simply places women and men should not mix.
The President is a fink.
October 23rd, 2019 at 8:13:59 AM permalink
terapined
Member since: Aug 6, 2014
Threads: 73
Posts: 11786
Quote: Gandler
What I do know from both personal experience and data that is available:

Gay people almost never get in trouble for sexual indiscretion in the military (not talking about pre-legalization where you could get kicked out if you openly stated it....)
The vast majority of "sex crimes" (I quoted because I am including consesual sex between different ranks, which is prohibited) are between straight men and women.

The idea that gay people are making the military a "bathhouse" (whatever that even means anymore) is simply not true. Gay people in the military are simply more careful and discreet which is why as others have posted almost never get in trouble.

And, most of the sex issues are between straight men and women. And, in an adult world, consenting adults are going to have sex. I have seen this happen in the private sector as well at companies that prohibit it, its simply a realty, men and women will find ways of having sex even if law or corporate policy prohibits it.....

Women who are qualified should be able to work in any unit they qualify for.

The idea that the very presence of women destroys all Male morality is silly and is almost Islamist (women should not be allowed to work or be around men without covers and a chaperone).

I am sorry, there is simply no logical reason to prohibit women and gay men for any job other than personal bias.

Excellent post
A hard agree from me :-)
Sometimes we live no particular way but our own - Grateful Dead "Eyes of the World"
October 23rd, 2019 at 8:52:39 AM permalink
Gandler
Member since: Aug 15, 2019
Threads: 27
Posts: 4236
Quote: AZDuffman
What it means is that gay males prefer more partners and hooking up with them is there reason for being. Like they either go to a bathhouse for lots of partners in a short period of time or in places like this forum where gay members bragged about letting guys do what they wish with them.




There is lots of reason unless you believe in a post-modern, genderless world. Your islamophobic comment has nothing to do with it. There are simply places women and men should not mix.


Gay men do not have significantly more sex partners than straight men. (And, even if they did who cares, the Army does regular STI testing, so it's about as clean as it gets)...

Men like sex and like talking about sex. I bet if a straight guy comes into your office bragging about all the chicks he banged that weekend you would not give it a second thought. It's a pretty common way for men, particularly young men to talk. Men do tend to have more uncommitted sex than women, that applies to all men, and men also like talking about sex. Again, gay men are usually more careful outside of close friends of boasting about sex, so I doubt that statement is true, but it's not worth getting into details of who talks about sex more....

The world is not genderless, men and women are different, and bring different things to the table, which if you are mature, is a great thing. However, men and women are capable of completing the same tasks (Some women may require more training, but many men also require a lot of training.... Some women are absolute physical fitness studs, and some men get wheezed from a slight jog..... ). But, yes, I am a realist and will grant on average men have higher upper body strength than women, however, physical fitness is something that anyone can train on (you can't train somebody's ASVAB score). Its 2019, things (even the military) are becoming less physical and more technological, which is why intelligence and social intelligence are good attributes.

And, I said Islamist, which is their world view (socially conservative strands of Islam, called Islamist, who beleive in basically complete gender separation), that is an accurate statement and not bigoted (I don't beleive in the word Islamaphobic, it is a political term to discredit legitimate rebuttles to religious criticism).... I chose Islam, because it is one of the last mainstream religions where this is a common thread, though that seems to be slowly changing, which (I hope you agree) is a positive change for the Islamic (not Islamist) world. (Also, I beleive, unless I am mixing you up, in which case I apologize, you have made far more critical posts about Islam than I, so I am not sure why you even bothered with that comment).
October 23rd, 2019 at 8:57:39 AM permalink
Gandler
Member since: Aug 15, 2019
Threads: 27
Posts: 4236
Quote: terapined
Excellent post
A hard agree from me :-)


Thank You, I am glad I am not the only social liberal on here (it seems like this board is becoming more and more socially conservative).
October 23rd, 2019 at 9:21:51 AM permalink
terapined
Member since: Aug 6, 2014
Threads: 73
Posts: 11786
Quote: Gandler
Thank You, I am glad I am not the only social liberal on here (it seems like this board is becoming more and more socially conservative).

Its just 2 of the top 5 posters here have a philosophy of hate(Gays and Muslims). You cant change their minds with logical counter points. Their hate is illogical
On the flip side, a lot of good logical interesting counter points back and forth between posters here not consumed by illogical hate
Sometimes we live no particular way but our own - Grateful Dead "Eyes of the World"
October 23rd, 2019 at 9:23:24 AM permalink
AZDuffman
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 135
Posts: 18136
Quote: Gandler
Gay men do not have significantly more sex partners than straight men. (And, even if they did who cares, the Army does regular STI testing, so it's about as clean as it gets)...


Credibility shot. They do, by a large factor.

Quote:
Men like sex and like talking about sex. I bet if a straight guy comes into your office bragging about all the chicks he banged that weekend you would not give it a second thought. It's a pretty common way for men, particularly young men to talk. Men do tend to have more uncommitted sex than women, that applies to all men, and men also like talking about sex. Again, gay men are usually more careful outside of close friends of boasting about sex, so I doubt that statement is true, but it's not worth getting into details of who talks about sex more....


Actually I would stop associating around him. This is the way you talk when you are 19 or 20. After that you start to talk about things of more interest. Uncommitted sex should equal out among men and women, unless you are counting gay male sex.

[content not relevant to reply deleted]

Quote:
And, I said Islamist, which is their world view (socially conservative strands of Islam, called Islamist, who beleive in basically complete gender separation), that is an accurate statement and not bigoted (I don't beleive in the word Islamaphobic, it is a political term to discredit legitimate rebuttles to religious criticism).... I chose Islam, because it is one of the last mainstream religions where this is a common thread, though that seems to be slowly changing, which (I hope you agree) is a positive change for the Islamic (not Islamist) world. (Also, I beleive, unless I am mixing you up, in which case I apologize, you have made far more critical posts about Islam than I, so I am not sure why you even bothered with that comment).


It has been discussed here before. Islam is about Islam, not social conservatism. I know zero social conservatives who advocate stoning a woman for being raped. It is a dangerous religion and if you want to discuss that please make a new thread.
The President is a fink.
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