Saint John Henry Newman

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October 17th, 2019 at 9:26:41 PM permalink
FrGamble
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 61
Posts: 6784
One of my personal heroes was officially made a saint last weekend. It was such a great joy. I wrote my thesis on Cardinal Newman and believe he was one of the greatest minds in history.

He clearly showed that faith was rational and that unbelief was really based on a desire not to believe. He showed that we all live by faith aka trust. We trust our memory, our senses, and our reason. We trust them even when we know they are occasionally wrong because in most cases they are correct. To be human is to trust ourselves. We do this literally every hour of every day. He goes further to show how little we would know if we just had faith in ourselves. We must have faith in others to know anything. I've never been to Australia yet I have faith it is there because of the people who have visited it. I trust the mapmakers and that the photos from space are real. I have no immediate experience of it but I have faith in others so that I believe it, nothing is more rational and reasonable than this. The problem is that recognition of this fact is despised by many people. We sometimes secretly, sometimes more openly, hate the fact that we are so dependent on faith and trust in others for our knowledge. We want to make it up ourselves and believe what we want to believe and make ourselves God. This is the real reason for those who do not believe in God. They are stubborn and it boils down to not wanting to believe. You can show them why faith is the most human and reasonable thing we can possibly do, you can lay out arguments for God and show them evidence, but it won't really matter to them because belief in the true God means they have to come to grips with the fact that they are not God, and they can't.

I recently gave a few lectures on the life and legacy of the new Saint John Henry Newman and came to realize that this is the reason so many on the forum don't believe. If they don't want to believe; no evidence, no reason, no argument will even help them to understand. Even in Newman's day he gave a simple test to see if someone was serious about pursuing the truth, wherever it led, and someone who was really just trying to pretend to be God and hopelessly rebelling against the fact that they were dependent on faith by lashing out unreasonably against the one who they thought was their enemy, namely the source and giver of all truth, God. The test was about how people respond and act when discussing religion. Those who when discussing religious faith were angry, vicious, mean, and ignorant were not worth arguing with because they simply did not want to believe. I take a lot of solace in that and am trying to change how I interact with some of the forum members who fail Newman's simple test. St. John Henry Newman...pray for us!
“It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” (
October 17th, 2019 at 10:06:45 PM permalink
rxwine
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 139
Posts: 7979
Quote: FrGamble
One of my personal heroes was officially made a saint last weekend. It was such a great joy. I wrote my thesis on Cardinal Newman and believe he was one of the greatest minds in history.

He clearly showed that faith was rational and that unbelief was really based on a desire not to believe. He showed that we all live by faith aka trust. We trust our memory, our senses, and our reason. We trust them even when we know they are occasionally wrong because in most cases they are correct. To be human is to trust ourselves. We do this literally every hour of every day. He goes further to show how little we would know if we just had faith in ourselves. We must have faith in others to know anything. I've never been to Australia yet I have faith it is there because of the people who have visited it. I trust the mapmakers and that the photos from space are real. I have no immediate experience of it but I have faith in others so that I believe it, nothing is more rational and reasonable than this. The problem is that recognition of this fact is despised by many people. We sometimes secretly, sometimes more openly, hate the fact that we are so dependent on faith and trust in others for our knowledge. We want to make it up ourselves and believe what we want to believe and make ourselves God. This is the real reason for those who do not believe in God. They are stubborn and it boils down to not wanting to believe. You can show them why faith is the most human and reasonable thing we can possibly do, you can lay out arguments for God and show them evidence, but it won't really matter to them because belief in the true God means they have to come to grips with the fact that they are not God, and they can't.

I recently gave a few lectures on the life and legacy of the new Saint John Henry Newman and came to realize that this is the reason so many on the forum don't believe. If they don't want to believe; no evidence, no reason, no argument will even help them to understand. Even in Newman's day he gave a simple test to see if someone was serious about pursuing the truth, wherever it led, and someone who was really just trying to pretend to be God and hopelessly rebelling against the fact that they were dependent on faith by lashing out unreasonably against the one who they thought was their enemy, namely the source and giver of all truth, God. The test was about how people respond and act when discussing religion. Those who when discussing religious faith were angry, vicious, mean, and ignorant were not worth arguing with because they simply did not want to believe. I take a lot of solace in that and am trying to change how I interact with some of the forum members who fail Newman's simple test. St. John Henry Newman...pray for us!


I find I become angry vicious and mean when you give one of your crazier explanations for something. Like the churches' anti-condom position, or that explanation about the path to heaven not really being narrow. And a few other things, I'm not remembering for the moment.
Trump Doctrine-Abandon loyal ally and make pathetic excuses why they weren't worthy
October 17th, 2019 at 11:50:13 PM permalink
Evenbob
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 133
Posts: 18637
Quote: rxwine
I find I become angry vicious and mean when you give one of your crazier explanations for something.


This 'test' he mentions about being angry
and mean is ridiculous. It means they
simply don't want to believe?

NOT! It means they don't see any god
to believe in. Period. They'd be more
than happy to believe in something
that was rational and made sense,
and for which there was verifiable
proof. Xtions have a
made up ridiculous story & get upset
when others don't fall for it. So it
must be because they 'don't want
to believe', it couldn't be because
it's an obvious fairy tale
that insults the intelligence.

A religion that used to hunt down
non believers and imprison or
murder them. Why would that
possibly make anybody angry, vicious
or mean..
If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.
October 18th, 2019 at 5:01:12 AM permalink
Fleastiff
Member since: Oct 27, 2012
Threads: 57
Posts: 7300
Quote: FrGamble
If they don't want to believe; no evidence, no reason, no argument will even help them to understand.
By 'understand' you really mean 'agree with you'. Sometimes people cling to what they value, despite any arguments that are advanced about the Chinese eating dogs and cats. Often we invent euphemisms such as 'sustainable protein' rather than say 'insect protein'.

Quote: FrGamble
namely the source and giver of all truth, God.

The source and giver of all truth is The Great Pumpkin according to Charley Brown, the Sun God in many cultures, the Moon God amongst nocturnal creatures.

Quote: FrGamble
The test was about how people respond and act when discussing religion.
Do you perhaps mean how people respond when someone is discussing religion at them.

Quote: FrGamble
Those who when discussing religious faith were angry, vicious, mean, and ignorant were not worth arguing with because they simply did not want to believe. I take a lot of solace in that and am trying to change how I interact with some of the forum members who fail Newman's simple test.
YOU fail this test when you choose to accept that Australia is there but not accept the cartographer's notation that 'beyond here are dragons'.

Quote: FrGamble
St. John Henry Newman...pray for us!
NEWS FLASH: He be dead! He don't pray. He don't curse. Others merely invoke his name to pray, an act often seen as invoking his name to prey.
October 18th, 2019 at 5:04:43 AM permalink
AZDuffman
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 119
Posts: 10655
Quote: FrGamble
One of my personal heroes was officially made a saint last weekend. It was such a great joy. I wrote my thesis on Cardinal Newman and believe he was one of the greatest minds in history.


Can you tell us a little more about him?
The man who damns money has obtained it dishonorably; the man who respects it has earned it
October 18th, 2019 at 10:12:27 AM permalink
Evenbob
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 133
Posts: 18637
Quote: Fleastiff


NEWS FLASH: He be dead! He don't pray. He don't curse..


Shhh. You'll make FrG angry, mean
and vicious with your belief..Of course
this 'saint' is dead and gone and not
listening to anybodies prayers. If
I claimed my aunt Gladys was
listening to me, even though she
died in 1972, they'd lock me up
in the loony bin. But connect it to
a religion and I'm golden. That's
not crazy at all..
If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.
October 18th, 2019 at 11:33:54 AM permalink
Wizard
Administrator
Member since: Oct 23, 2012
Threads: 218
Posts: 5509
Quote: FrGamble
I recently gave a few lectures on the life and legacy of the new Saint John Henry Newman and came to realize that this is the reason so many on the forum don't believe. If they don't want to believe; no evidence, no reason, no argument will even help them to understand.


I'd be happy to believe if I had some evidence to go on. It doesn't even need to be a rock-solid case. I just need to get to 51%. I'm at about 5% right now.

Also, I've been to Australia twice, so can vouch that it's there. But maybe I'm just in on the conspiracy.


p.s. I've climbed to the top of this bridge.
Knowledge is Good -- Emil Faber
October 18th, 2019 at 11:45:26 AM permalink
Evenbob
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 133
Posts: 18637
Quote: Wizard
I'd be happy to believe if I had some evidence to go on. It doesn't even need to be a rock-solid case. I just need to get to 51%. I'm at about 5% right now. .


Exactly, thank you. I also want
to believe, but so far I've seen
not a tidbit of real evidence
to believe in. Anecdotes are
NOT evidence of anything
except peoples ignorance.

FrG grew up having this stuff
pounded into his head. How
unfortunate for him, he has
no ability see around his
brainwashing. Instead he blames
us, the clear headed thinkers,
for not just accepting at face
value all the nonsense his mind
has been filled with. The rest
of us don't see this supernatural
superstitious world he's been
erroneously told exists. We instead
see the real world, something
he's been robbed of the ability
to do.
If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.
October 18th, 2019 at 11:46:06 AM permalink
Mosca
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 22
Posts: 656
I’m happy for you, Fr G, that your guy made the grade.

The rest of the discussion doesn’t interest me. It used to, but it doesn’t any more.
October 18th, 2019 at 11:58:27 AM permalink
Evenbob
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 133
Posts: 18637
Now it's making sense.

St. John Henry Newman: The First Openly Gay Catholic Saint?
https://www.newwaysministry.org/2019/10/13/st-john-henry-newman-the-first-openly-gay-catholic-saint/

He had a lifelong 'companion' who
was also a priest. They lived together.
They're even buried in the same grave.
Yet some Catholics will tell you he
wasn't Gay. Right.. makes sense
that the 80%-90% Vatican priesthood
would make this guy a saint.
If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.
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