Saint John Henry Newman

I think I should probably address Evenbob's claim that St. John Henry Newman was gay. The first thing I would say is so what if he was. The second thing I would say is that he most likely was not. We have lost the ability it seems to be best friends and intimate with other men now a days. When guys or girls live together and share live intimately, sharing their feelings, we think they must be gay and genitally involved. That is strange and simply not true. Why can we not love another man deeply and not be gay?

Bob is also wrong, of course, on some other things. They never moved or reburied Newman in another grave. Also their attempt to exhume him (there was nothing left of him or even his casket when they opened the grave) was a usual practice when someone is beatified, the first step to sainthood. The blessed are often moved to a tomb more easily accessible for prayer and usually in a Church.

Quote: FrGamble

I think I should probably address Evenbob's claim that St. John Henry Newman was gay. The first thing I would say is so what if he was. The second thing I would say is that he most likely was not. We have lost the ability it seems to be best friends .

Best friends? They doted on each other.
Newman claimed when his partner died
it was worse than losing a husband or
a wife. Best friends? He insisted that
he be buried in the same grave. C'mon..

So what, you say? So the Pope has
banned Gay men from the priesthood,
even if they're not having Gay sex.
Of course the Vatican will claim that
Newman and his partner were just
good friends. If there can't be Gay
priests (which of course there always
will be) how can there be Gay saints.

I didn't make this subject up, there
are lots of priests who say Newman
was Gay.

Quote: FrGamble

We have lost the ability it seems to be best friends and intimate with other men now a days. When guys or girls live together and share live intimately, sharing their feelings, we think they must be gay and genitally involved. That is strange and simply not true. Why can we not love another man deeply and not be gay?

I will give a +1 here. The gay culture that has built in the USA means that if you live in a roommate situation and the other person is not a relative you get questioned. I am not quite on the wording of "love another man deeply" but more go on whatever happened to
"just two guys, looking out for each other?" Think Felix and Oscar.

Living costs are cheaper and you can live in a better place that way. You have a ride to the garage when your car is in the shop. You do not have to put your bartender under "who to notify in case of emergency."

Some folks want no part of married and family life. Why should they have to be considered gay just because they find a way to fill a few of the gaps that are useful to them?

Quote: AZDuffman

I will give a +1 here. The gay culture that has built in the USA means that if you live in a roommate situation and the other person is not a relative you get questioned. I am not quite on the wording of "love another man deeply" but more go on whatever happened to
"just two guys, looking out for each other?" Think Felix and Oscar.

Living costs are cheaper and you can live in a better place that way. You have a ride to the garage when your car is in the shop. You do not have to put your bartender under "who to notify in case of emergency."

Some folks want no part of married and family life. Why should they have to be considered gay just because they find a way to fill a few of the gaps that are useful to them?

I agree. The same can be said with men and women renting together as well (maybe even more so).

People always assume roommates have to be sexually or romantically involved.

Some people just need roommates, and not everyone has family room live with (or does not want to).

Quote: FrGamble

I think I should probably address Evenbob's claim that St. John Henry Newman was gay. The first thing I would say is so what if he was. The second thing I would say is that he most likely was not. We have lost the ability it seems to be best friends and intimate with other men now a days. When guys or girls live together and share live intimately, sharing their feelings, we think they must be gay and genitally involved. That is strange and simply not true. Why can we not love another man deeply and not be gay?

Bob is also wrong, of course, on some other things. They never moved or reburied Newman in another grave. Also their attempt to exhume him (there was nothing left of him or even his casket when they opened the grave) was a usual practice when someone is beatified, the first step to sainthood. The blessed are often moved to a tomb more easily accessible for prayer and usually in a Church.

People like to do this with various historic figures. People have tried doing this with Lincoln.

Like you said, if it was adult consesual relations, who cares even if it were true.

But, more importantly, what is the purpose of gossiping about the sex lives of people from close to 200 years ago? They are both long dead, and his [potential/speculated] sex life is far from the most interesting thing about him.

Quote: Gandler

Like you said, if it was adult consesual relations, who cares even if it were true.
.

The pope, for one. He has now banned
all Gay men from even trying to get
into a seminary. Of course this is a
joke, he knows full well they'll all
just lie about it. Without Gays you
would lose 60% of the priesthood,
and 80%-90% of Vatican priests.

Quote: Evenbob

The pope, for one. He has now banned
all Gay men from even trying to get
into a seminary.

A smart thing considering all the problems gay priests caused the past few decades.

Quote: AZDuffman

A smart thing considering all the problems gay priests caused the past few decades.

Like banning Gay's in the military,
it's a meaningless gesture. Back in
the 70's I knew two middle aged
guys who were officers in the AF
in the 50's. When being Gay was
a court martial offense. They said
they never met so many Gay men
in one place in their lives, the
service was literally crawling with
them.

The pope is just mouthing empty
words, he knows nothing will change.

Quote: Evenbob

Like banning Gay's in the military,
it's a meaningless gesture. Back in
the 70's I knew two middle aged
guys who were officers in the AF
in the 50's. When being Gay was
a court martial offense. They said
they never met so many Gay men
in one place in their lives, the
service was literally crawling with
them.

They might be all around the OC, but that does not mean it was not a good policy. The military does not want the barracks becoming a bath house.

Quote: AZDuffman

They might be all around the OC, but that does not mean it was not a good policy. The military does not want the barracks becoming a bath house.

I like how everyone who thinks gays in the military is terrible, has never been in the military.

Trust me, after DADT was repealed nothing at all changed....

Nobody cares, as long as you are where you are supposed to be when you are supposed to be there and can do your job.

(Oh and most of the sexual assault issues in the military is almost exclusively straight men)....

There had been homosexuality for generations in the military anyway, ("it's not gay if its underway", "its not gay if deployed"..... etc.... the premise being when women were not around for months-years, men tended to have sex with each other's when bored, even "straight" men....) Of course now with being able to be open, and women serving pretty much everywhere now, the dynamics are changing (for the better in my view)....