Andrew Yang seems pretty awesome

Quote: rxwine

I am aware of all of it, I vividly remember it as a kid. Which is why I am against any kind of price controls on gasoline. One coworker said there should be a limit on what they can charge for gas, I asked if she was nuts.

We had rationing in WWII, never since.

The real issue in question to UBI is what caused the shortages. What caused them was fooling with the free market and reducing ROI. Tax gas to give the money away and you will get to relive 1973 and 1979 all over again!

UBI is insane. How can anyone not see that you cannot create wealth this way. Just a shell game.

In "1984" they cut the chocolate ration I forget exactly but say by six ounces. A short time later they raised it to eight. The sheep thought they were getting 8 more ounces, really they were getting 2. UBI is like this, people think they are getting a free $1,000 but they will lose more in taxes and other reduced standard of living.

OTOH, I will give $1,000 to anyone here who can make an apple appear out of thin air to a table. Because this is what they think UBI is going to do, produce wealth from thin air.

Quote: kenarman

Mike you are the math guru. My look at the numbers show that the cost of UBI is about the total federal spending currently.

Just doing division

2020 POTUS budget in millions of dollars
$3,644,772 receipts
$4,745,573 outlay

329.146 population of USA in millions

$922.79 per month per inhabitant: receipts
$1201.49 per month per inhabitant: outlay

Quote: Pacomartin

Just doing division

2020 POTUS budget in millions of dollars
$3,644,772 receipts
$4,745,573 outlay

329.146 population of USA in millions

$922.79 per month per inhabitant: receipts
$1201.49 per month per inhabitant: outlay

Thanks Paco.

When I'm in charge there will be a job for you somewhere in my administration.

Quote: Pacomartin

Just doing division

2020 POTUS budget in millions of dollars
$3,644,772 receipts
$4,745,573 outlay

329.146 population of USA in millions

$922.79 per month per inhabitant: receipts
$1201.49 per month per inhabitant: outlay

Please correct me if I am wrong Paco but your number is current income in the budget is $922.79 / month /person. UBI is proposed at $1,000 / month /person.
As I said before we can subtract kids and there will some savings from programs replaced by UBI but basically it comes close to doubling the spending of the feds.

Quote: AZDuffman

Wealth cannot be invented by taxes.

Every wealthy person knows first
hand taxes are just a word to
steal as much of their money as
possible. Lower classes don't see
it as much because they have
so little to steal.

Quote: Evenbob

Every wealthy person knows first
hand taxes are just a word to
steal as much of their money as
possible. Lower classes don't see
it as much because they have
so little to steal.

Bill Gates and Buffet have both said the rich need to pay more taxes. And Gates has already paid 10 billion in taxes, trumps entire fake worth.

Quote: rxwine

Bill Gates and Buffet have both said the rich need to pay more taxes. And Gates has already paid 10 billion in taxes, trumps entire fake worth.

If they want to pay more they can man up and give money to the Treasury as Trump does with his salary. Otherwise it is just talk and they have zero credibility.

Quote: Evenbob

Every wealthy person knows first
hand taxes are just a word to
steal as much of their money as
possible. Lower classes don't see
it as much because they have
so little to steal.

Lower classes seem to not understand how money adds up. They see an expense that they can or cannot afford, not the total cost of things. They do not pay as much attention to what percent of their income that expense is eating up. When I did car loans what I saw people accept as a car payment amazed me, the total cost of a car in relation to their income amazed me. Mindset of "I'm always gonna be broke so I want a few nice things around."

They are easily fooled by changing a few things with taxes. Change the withholding to get a bigger refund they think the refund is all that matters. They can pay less in taxes but if that refund is smaller they think they got gyped. Refund is higher and they think all is well, even when they paid hundreds or a few thousand per year more.

Quote: AZDuffman

Lower classes seem to not understand how money adds up.

Rich people know taxes can effect
their very lifestyle. Not the super
rich, nothing affects them. Not
rich people live paycheck to paycheck
on wages and credit. They have no
idea how taxes impact them.

Never trust anybody who's idea
is to raise taxes to pay for something.

Quote: kenarman

Please correct me if I am wrong Paco but your number is current income in the budget is $922.79 / month /person. UBI is proposed at $1,000 / month /person.
As I said before we can subtract kids and there will some savings from programs replaced by UBI but basically it comes close to doubling the spending of the feds.

I don't think that they are subtracting kids. If the population is currently 329.146 million (including children) x $12,000 per year that would be $3.95 trillion.

This article on the topic says $3.9 trillion which is subtracting only 4.146 million people (presumably jail inmates)
https://medium.com/s/free-money/what-a-1-000-a-month-universal-basic-income-would-look-like-e278e11a16e0

No program like this would dare leave out children, as it costs money to raise children. Some people even want to give a vote to minors (to be cast by their parents) to increase family influence on the political process.

Of course, the contract to manage this program would be hundreds of billions of dollars.

It is a little less doubling what the federal government spends, but it is more than the current "receipts".

Reference the article: Raising enough revenue for a $500 per month or even a $1,000 per month UBI would bring the United States’ tax burden in line with that of the European social democracies.

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It would be great for Mexico, Central America and Caribbean, however, as millions of wealthy people from the USA would move into that country looking for tax relief. Cancun will look like Manhattan. Panama City is already said to be "Manhattanizing".



Trump Ocean Tower in Panama City