Democratic Nominee in 2020

Quote: Mission146

I'm referring mostly to cancel culture. I see the Far Left as wanting to take certain actions to severely curtail the concept of Free Speech.

No question it was (mostly) about slavery. All one must do to know that is read the Confederate Constitution. No reevaluation needed.

The modern left and it's cancel culture is so out of what we can call the dystopian trilogy ("Animal Farm"/"1984"/"Brave New World") it is scary. And for people wanting to be that guy and say they are not a trilogy I know they are not, but they all related in subject matter.

It took no time at all for them to go from toppling Confederate monuments to demanding we tear down or/and rename monuments to our past leaders like Washington and Jefferson.

We need a leader who will say, "We know they owned slaves. Sit down, shut up, and deal with it!"

IMHO though what we are seeing is seeds of a cultural revolution. Hate towards whites is allowed if not encouraged on college campuses and other places. It is brewing. What will eventually happen will echo the French Revolution and its violence.

Things will last through my time at least. But after that the deluge.

Quote: terapined

Who cares about the far left
How about the regular left like me
I am in full support of freedom of speech
Give me an example of cancel culture where somebody lost their right to free speech
Take the KKK. I will always support their right to freedom of speech

By the way there are no free speech rights on private web sites such as this one. Wiz's house, Wiz's rules. That includes all houses including Zuck's

Well, when you have folks ganging up on Facebook users who express an unpopular opinion, or in a one-time fit, use words that even they might normally consider inappropriate...then you have folks who dig into them to try to figure out where they work to get them fired from their job for making a post that really didn't hurt anyone------I'm going to call that a stifling of Free Speech.

You might be the, "Regular left," as might a majority of those on the left...but it seems that the regular left barely calls the shots in that party anymore.

Quote: terapined

Who cares about the far left
How about the regular left like me
I am in full support of freedom of speech
Give me an example of cancel culture where somebody lost their right to free speech
Take the KKK. I will always support their right to freedom of speech

By the way there are no free speech rights on private web sites such as this one. Wiz's house, Wiz's rules. That includes all houses including Zuck's

I support your positiion TP but that is not what is happening right now. I can go demonstrate and write A C A B on everything in site. If I were to write swastikas or A B(blacks) A B on things I would be charged with a hate crime.

Quote: Mission146

Well, when you have folks ganging up on Facebook users who express an unpopular opinion, or in a one-time fit, use words that even they might normally consider inappropriate...then you have folks who dig into them to try to figure out where they work to get them fired from their job for making a post that really didn't hurt anyone------I'm going to call that a stifling of Free Speech.

You might be the, "Regular left," as might a majority of those on the left...but it seems that the regular left barely calls the shots in that party anymore.

Give me an example?
Got a name.
If someone comes into my house screaming disgusting things
Yea I will kick out that person out of my house. I may go that person's employer and say I will never do business there because that employee screamed disgusting things in my house.
That employee may get fired. Oh well. Consequences when you go in somebody's house and scream. Stay out of the house if you dont want consequences.
Thats not stifling free speech.
There is no such thing as free speech in anyones house
That person can still go on a street corner and use their free speech rights

That disgusting person should have said those disgusting things on a street corner where free speech is protected
Free speech is not protected in my house, the Wizards house or Zuckerburgs house.

Businesses have a right to fire an employee if they determine the actions of the employee outside the business will hurt the business itself

Quote: kenarman

I support your positiion TP but that is not what is happening right now. I can go demonstrate and write A C A B on everything in site. If I were to write swastikas or A B(blacks) A B on things I would be charged with a hate crime.

Who has lost their right to free speech?
Got a name?
I even saw free speech practiced at the Civil Rights museum by the Lorraine motel against the museum
What a great country
Jacqueline Smith protests against the museum is ongoing and you can talk to her across the street from the motel
She was the last resident of the Lorraine motel.
She is still pretty upset she got evicted
She continues to practice her freedom of speech against the motel and museum every day

People that only protest on line are talking the talk but not waking the walk
Jacqueline Smith is talking the talk and walking the walk

Quote: terapined

Give me an example?
Got a name.
If someone comes into my house screaming disgusting things
Yea I will kick out that person out of my house. I may go that person's employer and say I will never do business there because of that employee screamed disgusting things in my house.
That employee may get fired. Oh well. Consequences when you go in somebody's house and scream. Stay out of the house if you dont want consequences.
Thats not stifling free speech.
There is no such thing as free speech in anyones house
That person can still go on a street corner and use their free speech rights

That disgusting person should have said those disgusting things on a street corner where free speech is protected
Free speech is not protected in my house, the Wizards house or Zuckerburgs house.

A name? That's what I'm going to do; I'm going to lament people who have been doxxed and then dox them some more. Here are a few articles:

https://inthesetimes.com/article/cancel-culture-just-cause-union-labor-employment

Here's one calling for a professor's head for expressing an opinion:

https://reason.com/2020/07/08/cancel-culture-is-out-of-control/

Others you can search for yourself and you'll surely turn up no shortage of examples.

On a slightly more direct level, I've seen on two occasions that someone made a comment on Facebook---a business owner both times---and then people jumped all over the posts and encouraged others to go to all the various websites and trash the business with bad reviews. Keeping in mind:

1. Most of these people would have had no dealings with the business itself they are trashing.

2. The comments were not made in the context of the business.

3. At least one such comment wasn't even particularly bad on its own (in my view).

4. It completely ignores the impact that something happening to the business could have on its other employees, who had nothing to do with anything.

When it comes to people getting terminated, there does exist a question of workplace rights issues and whether or not employers should even be allowed to holds folks accountable for conduct outside of the workplace when not representing the workplace.

Of course, many employers do that anyway, to some extent. If you can't take drugs and work somewhere, but are subject to random screenings, then that's the employer basically forcing upon you that you can't take drugs in your free time and have a job there. Some employers say employees can't smoke. Many jobs that are contracted have, "Morality clauses."

The bigger problem (if you see it that way) is in, "Right-to-work," states, which is also right for your employer to fire you for any reason they want to or no reason at all. In those states, you could even be some menial employee who's essentially held to some set of unspoken/unwritten rules that you don't even know about.

From the business perspective, if you have people bombarding you with phone calls over something one of your employees said...and losing them would not be severely disruptive in and of itself...then the easiest thing for you might be to just cut them loose.

Anyway, I basically consider the employee/employer a relationship of free association, absent anything to the contrary in writing. Besides, even if the employer wasn't going to overtly can someone due to outside pressure; it wouldn't be that hard to find a convenient excuse to get rid of them. Ever read an employee handbook or full list of, "Company policies," yeah, good luck keeping those at all times.

But, mainly, people should be simply allowed to say whatever the hell they want to without consequences in an aspect of life unrelated to where they are saying it.

So, we're not talking about going into a person's house...or even their business...because all of that is free association. Also, property rights.

You may or may not go to that person's employer, but I certainly never would. Why would I? If the person left my house without putting up a fight about it, then that concludes any possible problem I have with that person.

Now, if I usually patronize the place where they are employed and they start back with me there, that's a whole different issue. But, if I see them out in public (and ESPECIALLY) at their place of employment...I'm just going to act like the conversation never happened. Doesn't mean I'll talk to them like we're best friends, just means I am going to politely conduct my business and leave.

---Even with street corners, then you can videotape people and take the videotape to their employers...sometimes these things even become national news.

And, I think you might be aware of some recently mentioned books that LOVED surveillance culture.

Quote: Mission146

The bigger problem (if you see it that way) is in, "Right-to-work," states, which is also right for your employer to fire you for any reason they want to or no reason at all. In those states, you could even be some menial employee who's essentially held to some set of unspoken/unwritten rules that you don't even know about.

I think you mean "at-will employment" not right-to-work. RTW is about not allowing forced union membership.

Quote: Mission146

A name? That's what I'm going to do; I'm going to lament people who have been doxxed and then dox them some more. Here are a few articles:

https://inthesetimes.com/article/cancel-culture-just-cause-union-labor-employment

Here's one calling for a professor's head for expressing an opinion:

https://reason.com/2020/07/08/cancel-culture-is-out-of-control/

Others you can search for yourself and you'll surely turn up no shortage of examples.

On a slightly more direct level, I've seen on two occasions that someone made a comment on Facebook---a business owner both times---and then people jumped all over the posts and encouraged others to go to all the various websites and trash the business with bad reviews. Keeping in mind:

1. Most of these people would have had no dealings with the business itself they are trashing.

2. The comments were not made in the context of the business.

3. At least one such comment wasn't even particularly bad on its own (in my view).

4. It completely ignores the impact that something happening to the business could have on its other employees, who had nothing to do with anything.

When it comes to people getting terminated, there does exist a question of workplace rights issues and whether or not employers should even be allowed to holds folks accountable for conduct outside of the workplace when not representing the workplace.

Of course, many employers do that anyway, to some extent. If you can't take drugs and work somewhere, but are subject to random screenings, then that's the employer basically forcing upon you that you can't take drugs in your free time and have a job there. Some employers say employees can't smoke. Many jobs that are contracted have, "Morality clauses."

The bigger problem (if you see it that way) is in, "Right-to-work," states, which is also right for your employer to fire you for any reason they want to or no reason at all. In those states, you could even be some menial employee who's essentially held to some set of unspoken/unwritten rules that you don't even know about.

From the business perspective, if you have people bombarding you with phone calls over something one of your employees said...and losing them would not be severely disruptive in and of itself...then the easiest thing for you might be to just cut them loose.

Anyway, I basically consider the employee/employer a relationship of free association, absent anything to the contrary in writing. Besides, even if the employer wasn't going to overtly can someone due to outside pressure; it wouldn't be that hard to find a convenient excuse to get rid of them. Ever read an employee handbook or full list of, "Company policies," yeah, good luck keeping those at all times.

But, mainly, people should be simply allowed to say whatever the hell they want to without consequences in an aspect of life unrelated to where they are saying it.

So, we're not talking about going into a person's house...or even their business...because all of that is free association. Also, property rights.

You may or may not go to that person's employer, but I certainly never would. Why would I? If the person left my house without putting up a fight about it, then that concludes any possible problem I have with that person.

Now, if I usually patronize the place where they are employed and they start back with me there, that's a whole different issue. But, if I see them out in public (and ESPECIALLY) at their place of employment...I'm just going to act like the conversation never happened. Doesn't mean I'll talk to them like we're best friends, just means I am going to politely conduct my business and leave.

---Even with street corners, then you can videotape people and take the videotape to their employers...sometimes these things even become national news.

And, I think you might be aware of some recently mentioned books that LOVED surveillance culture.

Has Harold Uhlig lost his right to practice free speech??????????????????
Somebody taped up his mouth lol
Bottom line
Cancel culture IS FREEDOM OF SPEECH
If a business fires somebody and you disagree
Your problem is with the business
Not with people practicing their freedom of speech
How can you be against the freedom of speech to complain
Somebody practices freedom of speech saying something disgusting. Thats freedom
Somebody complains. Thats freedom
A business fires, thats freedom
We are free and there are consequences. Thats life

Quote: AZDuffman

I think you mean "at-will employment" not right-to-work. RTW is about not allowing forced union membership.

Quite right, thank you for the correction. I sometimes get those terms mixed up.

Quote: Mission146

Quite right, thank you for the correction. I sometimes get those terms mixed up.

No worries. Just wanting to avoid another tangent.