Easter: Message of Jesus?

Quote: beachbumbabs

You're right: I am heavily influenced by Christianity, but I do not consider myself a Christian in the modern sense. I revere Jesus, but question his divinity.

You'll have to forgive me but this sounds to me like someone who revers MLK, Jr. but questions the civil rights movement.

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The leap of faith you make between these paragraphs is where you lose me, not that I stopped reading.

In my humble opinion I think it is a bigger leap of faith to believe that Jesus was just a nice guy who went around claiming to be God and who limped half-dead out of tomb claiming to be Resurrected and it sparked the greatest and largest religion on the face of the world and impacted human history to an immeasurable degree.

I kind of feel comfortable making the jump to believing Jesus was who claimed to be God, who taught marvelously and with authority and was not lying or a madman and that after the Romans who were very good at killing people and making sure they were dead crucified Him that He rose from the God confirmation that He was indeed God and had defeated sin and death and so inspired His Apostles and followers that they lit the world on fire through their preaching and witness in the face of horrendous persecution.

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I have a great deal of cynicism about his followers.

Me too. Me included. I am far from a perfect follower of Christ and I dare say you might struggle at times to live out the teachings you admire so much.

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I look at the priests and leaders who have done the worst sinning in his name, killing, torturing, subjugating, and converting "infidels" and I am sickened.

Me too. I continue to be sickened by anyone who so obviously and egregiously goes against the teachings of Christ. More people are enslaved on the face of the Earth now than at any time previous in history. We just finished the bloodiest century by far in all of human history. I am sickened with what humanity can do to each other. At the same time I am hopeful for all the good I see in others every day. I see an imperfect Church continue to be world's largest charitable organization. I see a Pope who is listening to the people of God and the Holy Spirit.

I look at the vast horde of hypocrites who see him as a free pass to sin and trespass and hurt, as long as they show up to church on Sunday, and i am angered.

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I look at the multitudes of sheep who blindly cede the greatest gifts God has given Man, their minds and souls, to any shyster who claims he speaks for the Lord, and I despair.

Me too.

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Oh, Jesus save us from the manipulations of your followers while trampling your good Name.

Amen, sister. From your lips to God's ears.

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So I help myself every day, and perhaps God walks with me, perhaps I am persevering on my own. I don't know which. But I do not seek false comfort.

I know that God walks with you and I know that comfort He gives is not false.
Thanks as always for your contribution.

Quote: Evenbob

"Truth is a pathless land, and you cannot approach it by any path whatsoever, by any religion, by any sect. Truth, being limitless, unconditioned, unapproachable by any path whatsoever, cannot be organized; nor should any organization be formed to lead or to coerce people along any particular path. If you first understand that, then you will see how impossible it is to organize a belief. A belief is purely an individual matter, and you cannot and must not organize it. If you do, it becomes dead, crystallized; it becomes a creed, a sect, a religion, to be imposed on others. It becomes a crutch, a weakness, a bondage, and must cripple the individual, and prevent him from growing, from establishing his uniqueness, which lies in the discovery for himself of the absolute, unconditioned truth."

J. Krishnamurti, August 3rd, 1929, as he
disbanded the Order of the Star of the
East.

Why is truth unapproachable by any path?
I feel that truth is the most approachable thing in the world. Why are we given brains to seek truth only to throw up our hands and think it is unapproachable? I also think that truth is approachable by all kinds of paths. The old saying that all roads lead to Rome could be restated to say that all roads faithfully and openly traveled lead to truth.

I hope belief is not just an individual matter! Don't we want to believe in something that is true and not just something we made up ourselves to make us feel good? If belief is not grounded in truth it is dangerous and leads to anarchy. If anything we believe is not grounded in truth we can use it as a bludgeon against others, to discriminate against them, and to make ourselves into gods. This individualism in faith is a true crutch and a weakness that keeps the person locked in a small bubble of their making and never allows them to be challenged or grow in a real understanding of truth.

I don't know who this person was you are quoting, but I have serious problems with what he is saying and I hope no one really took him seriously.

Quote: FrGamble

Why is truth unapproachable by any path?

Because it's an individual thing,
not a mass experience. You'd
be the first to admit that we
are all unique, one of a kind.
You say that, but then think
one truth, your truth, is the
cookie cutter same for everybody.

It's what churches do, they say and
think they have the patent of
truth, and in some cases, like what
your church used to do, force
people physically into going along
with it.

Actual truth is not that obvious and
it's an individual journey, not a group
experience. But there's no power
over others with that philosophy, so
organized religion sells group-think
to the lazy and gullible.

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I don't know who this person was you are quoting, but I have serious problems with what he is saying and I hope no one really took him seriously.

I take it you're joking, an educated
person like yourself can't be that
ignorant. You're just trying to get
a rise out of me.

Quote: FrGamble

you are doing the exact same in the opposite direction and making up your own reality of who Jesus is.

Read the NT, it's obvious who he was.
A homeless guy who went town to town
preaching doom and gloom and getting
fed by people who felt sorry for him
He dies and myths about him spring up
and get added to and embellished for
decades until they have a real phenom on
their hands. Read the Jesus Seminar and
see how much Jesus actually said of what
is attributed to him. It ain't much..

A very old story, and easy to accomplish in
those days when 97% were illiterate and
superstition ruled the world.

Quote: Evenbob

Because it's an individual thing,
not a mass experience.

Whoa! Did you just say truth is an individual thing, not universal?!? Is this like "alternative facts". Bro, come on - 2+2=4 is not just an individual thing. The principal of non-contradiction is not an individual thing it is a mass experience for everyone. In fact you and the person you are quoting are breaking the principal of non-contradiction just by writing this baloney. You can't say that it is true that truth is an individual thing. You have contradicted yourself in saying that. What if for you Evenbob truth may be an individual thing and 2+2=5 and there is no God but in my individual truth truth is an accessible reality for anyone with a brain and 2+2=4 and there is a God. Do you dare challenge my individual truth? Get off it, bro - this is crazy talk.

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You'd
be the first to admit that we
are all unique, one of a kind.
You say that, but then think
one truth, your truth, is the
cookie cutter same for everybody.

Yes every human person is unique.
and absolutely truth is one and the same for everybody! How could it be otherwise? If I say A is true and you say not-A is true, can we both be right?

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It's what churches do, they say and
think they have the patent of
truth,

No body has a patent on the truth because no one invents it. It is true and not just Churches but anybody who makes any claim or positive statement at all does, they make a claim that they know the truth. They have to back it up and defend it, but if you think Trump is a good president then you are claiming a truth that is not just for you but for everybody and you have to defend it and explain it. If you say there is no God you are making a truth statement that is not true just for you and you have to explain it and defend it (which you of course cannot do, in either case perhaps).

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Actual truth is not that obvious and
it's an individual journey, not a group
experience. But there's no power
over others with that philosophy, so
organized religion sells group-think
to the lazy and gullible.

Stop this scary type of talk. Has this guy you quoted filled your mind with such nonsense? If truth is an individual journey and your private possession it is one of the most dangerous ideas out there. This gives you all the power and no one can check you or challenge you. You keep on believing for example that Catholics force people to believe in Christ or the black people are inferior or that unborn babies are not people and no one can point out facts that prove you wrong. Talk about lazy and gullible, a private individual truth is the definition of lazy and gullible. Truth needs to be open, like scientific knowledge. It has to be accessible to all and can't be just some individual journey. Please tell me you understand this and see how dangerous this man's thoughts are. It is the beginning of cults and the closing off of the mind.

Quote: Evenbob

Read the NT, it's obvious who he was.

LOL. What is painfully obvious is you have not read it.

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A very old story, and easy to accomplish in
those days when 97% were illiterate and
superstition ruled the world.

Ah there it is. Despite no other myths or Messiahs rising from this era and objectively maybe it was the worst possible place and time to begin a movement somehow Jesus was in the wrong place at the very wrong time and yet His message and religion spread all around the world and changed human history forever. And this was because everyone around that time were stupid bumpkins who believed in superstition. Yeah...riiight. Talk about your own individual truth that has no bearing on real truth, this is it.

Quote: FrGamble

Stop this scary type of talk. Has this guy you quoted filled your mind with such nonsense?

You're the 1966 Ford dealer who
believes with every fiber of his
being that Ford's are the best
cars in the world. You could never
talk him out of it if you had a
hundred years to do it.

You have to believe truth is universal,
your livelihood depends on it. If truth
was a pathless land (which it is), you
would be out of business. Your job
is to hit people over the head with
your truth being the ONLY truth. And
because people are intellectually lazy
and clueless, you will always have
willing suckers to preach to.

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see how dangerous this man's thoughts are.

The Catholic Church converted how many
innocents by force? Millions. The Church
killed how many because their 'truth' wasn't
being accepted? Those were the good old
days for the Vatican, right? If you didn't
accept their 'truth' you were dealt with to
the point of burning you at the stake.

What you call truth is actually dog crap on a
stick. But you keep defending it and forgetting
you represent the greatest genocide machine
the world has ever known.

How many people have died in the name of Christ, Christianity and Catholicism?

I'm not endorsing this site but it
does have a very good list of the
atrocities the Church committed
in the name of Jesus.

VICTIMS OF THE CHRISTIAN FAITH

http://www.truthbeknown.com/victims.htm

Quote: Evenbob

You're the 1966 Ford dealer who
believes with every fiber of his
being that Ford's are the best
cars in the world. You could never
talk him out of it if you had a
hundred years to do it.

Sure you could. Show him the stats, take him to the factory, let him drive a Ford around for a while. Talk to other people who own Ford's. If Ford is really the best car in the world the truth will become clear if it is not than that truth will be clear as well.

What you are doing to yourself and even worse subjecting us to is making up the stats, going to people who hate Ford's and asking for their opinion, and creating fantasy and twisting truth to convince people Ford's are the worst.

Your lies about the Catholic Church are myths that you chose to believe. They are twisted history and exaggerated parts of history. I've pointed you before to Wikipedia, which you said was controlled by the Church, I've even suggested to you books to read that you ignored. You are the wrong side of history here, in fact you are in fantasy hate-land. Now I want to make clear that the Church has grievously sinned and made mistakes but for you to claim genocide or that millions of people were forced to convert puts you so far outside the realm of reality that it would be laughable if it wasn't so darn sad.

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You have to believe truth is universal,
your livelihood depends on it. If truth
was a pathless land (which it is), you
would be out of business. Your job
is to hit people over the head with
your truth being the ONLY truth. And
because people are intellectually lazy
and clueless, you will always have
willing suckers to preach to.

You are the sucker and you hold onto your private truth that is a fabrication and you won't let anyone hit you over the head with objective historical facts. You are being closed minded. Truth is universal and it needs to be open for all to see. You don't need to hit anyone over the head with it because all people can discover it for themselves if they have a truly open mind and heart. Your job seems to be to hide from the truth and pretend it your own personal facts that Wikipedia and every historian that doesn't agree with you is out to get you and in bed with the Church. You are acting like you are part of a dangerous cult and I am worried for you. Legitimately so.

Quote: FrGamble

out to get you and in bed with the Church. .

Only the Jesus believers, and their long
history if intolerance and punishment
for those that went against them. Much
as you try and hide the history of your
awful Church, and hide from it's history,
it's not going anywhere. The days when
the Vatican controlled everything it could
are long gone, and the atrocities and
scandals perpetrated on the innocent in
the name of Jesus are out there for all
to see.

Good. It is good for people to know the truth including the atrocities and scandals. You see truth is not the personal possession of any one person or group. The Vatican can't control it or change it and neither can you. It is universal and open.