Easter: Message of Jesus?

Quote: FrGamble

Plenty of evidence of this around. Also keep in mind that it is Christian doctrine that keeps harping on despite people behaving bad or sinful that this is NOT who we are. We are good, worthy, hopeful, and loved - this is what Christian doctrine is harping on!

That's not the way it comes across.

Quote:

However, the lasting impact of those things that caused you guilt or shame is separation from a perfect God.

What lasting impact?

Quote:

Jesus reconnects us to God through His perfection and His sacrifice for us.

To paraphrase Lisa Simpson: I recognize each of those words, but they don't make sense in that sentence.

Quote:

Therefore the relevance is not just a current moment state of being, but rather an eternal gift of righteousness with God.

I still don't see any relevance to me, my life, or this world whatsoever.

Quote: beachbumbabs

Jesus died for all of us,

What does that mean, explain.

Quote: FrGamble

Jesus died for all our sins.

Un Huh, here we go again. You refuse
to be specific because you know if you
do, half your argument in defense of
Xtionity goes out the window.

Lets be really specific and cut to the
chase: Which sins did Jesus himself
say he was dying for. What did Jesus
specifically say about original sin and
that's why he was dying.

Quote: FrGamble

It is relevant because I think we all feel a disconnect between the person we are and the person we want to be. This disconnect can be turned to a type of despair or not feeling good about ourselves. This ironically is the number one thing holding us back from being more like the person we want to be. .

This is the New Age shrink babble
gobbly gook good time rock and
roll meaningless answer that's oh
so popular now. I don't want to
hear the Church's latest fantasy
about why Jesus died, I want to
know specifically what Jesus himself
said were the sins he was dying for
and how him dying for them will
give us this fantasy life you and
your Church seem to think is
happening.

Quote: Evenbob

What does that mean, explain.

(Jesus died for all of us)

This got long, sorry. Hang in there anyway, please.

Regardless of how we feel about it as the recipients of the gift of his sacrifice, FROM HIS PERSPECTIVE, (per quotations of him in the Bible) that is what he did and why he did it, to demonstrate his love for mankind.

Accept the gift, be aware of it, reject it, consider him a crazy man, disbelieve it ever happened (though there are contemporaneous independent reports of the fact of his crucifixion ), that's your choice/belief.

Me, I absolutely believe it happened, but not the mystical part of it. I also don't think he was insane. I think he was a teacher of his times.

As to the risen from the dead, since it was asked, the level of medical knowledge was rudimentary at best. Even today there is the occasional person who wakes up at the mortuary.

He had wounds from the nails in his hands and feet. A sword was run into his side. He was left to hang by his arms, which causes death by slow suffocation, compressing the diaphragm and making it difficult to draw breath. And he had some scourging wounds and head wounds from thorns.

These are not unsurvivable. The suffocation would first cause unconsciousness. It is possible he was deeply unconscious or comatose when they removed him from the cross and shrouded him. At that point, especially if it were those who loved him that took him down, prepared and entombed him, the diaphragm constriction would have been removed. The stigmata could have clotted, the side wound as well, and if no major blood vessels were hit, he could rest Friday night and all Saturday, arising on Sunday.

I say especially his people, because they would have every reason to declare his death and remove him. All they had to do was convince the Romans he was dead. Which perhaps happened.

It certainly advanced their case for him to "rise from the dead" and perform another miracle in doing so, and perhaps saved his life, even providing further protection through awe and fear after he'd been pronounced dead. So if they had that opportunity, they would have taken it, and spread the legend.

I'm not saying that's what happened. But it seems the most likely to me, involving only some duplicity and medical ignorance, rather than a miraculous raising.

The thing is, whether there is a modern-knowledge explanation or a miraculous one, it does not detract from the very useful basic tenets of his advice, parables, and values. The Resurrection can be seen as a propaganda tool if you're cynical about the religious mysteries, but it only tries to reinforce the actual message by catching the attention and awe of those who need to hear it.

Quote: beachbumbabs

Regardless of how we feel about it as the recipients of the gift of his sacrifice, .

What did he 'sacrifice', exactly. The Romans
crucified over 100,000 people in a 300
year span, they all died just like Jesus died.
What the difference between them and Jesus.
Are you saying Jesus would have lived forever
if he hadn't been killed?

I am still baffled as to how his death did anything
for anybody. The explanations about it are just
a bunch of words strung together that have no
meaning.

Quote: Nareed

That's not the way it comes across.

Sometimes the problem with reception is with the broadcast and sometimes it is with the receiver, sometimes a little of both. Nevertheless, Catholic Christian doctrine is harping all the time that we are wonderfully made for good, but we sometimes do bad things, these bad things can and should never define us.

Quote:

What lasting impact?

The wages of sin is death, in an eternal sense of separation from all that is good and true.

Quote: FrGamble

I am interested to here Babs answer but I was wondering if you caught my answer or if it got lost in the Evenbob fluff. Here it is again:

In regards to your further questions here, yes there are other choices and one of them is definitely "complete fabrication".

Also I chose my religion based on what spoke into the human condition and made the most sense of life and the universe. I also chose my religion based on historical evidence, interior logic, scientific evidence, philosophy, coherent theology, the witness of great men and women, miracles, and personal experience.

Yes, we have talked about all of that before. I think I know what you believe, I think you have some idea about what I believe, and neither of our opinions have changed.

Quote: FrGamble

The wages of sin is death, in an eternal sense of separation from all that is good and true.

Ok. I'm going to back away slowly.

Quote: FrGamble

The wages of sin is death, in an eternal sense of separation from all that is good and true.

You state that like it's an axiom, that
it's infallible truth. When in actuality,
you can prove none of it, you can't
prove god and sin even exist. You hope
it's true because it's what your church
is selling, but you can no more prove
it than any religious person can prove
what they believe.